California shuts down rides with Intamin T-bar restraints

It is an over-reaction when the State is ordering 'fixes' to a ride restraint that represents a significant redesign from the one implicated in the incident, when to the best of anyone's knowledge nobody has found a problem with the ride restraint.

Now, if the CalDOSH has ordered that the restraints on the rides in question be evaluated with an eye towards correcting potential flaws, that I could understand. But the best intelligence we have at the moment is that CalDOSH has shut the rides down and ordered the parks to 'fix' them. That implies that the existing restraints are broken, and that is an implication that I don't think anyone can say for sure is true. Yes, riders have been thrown from four rides that have the Intamin lap bars. But two of those rides have the exact same seat and lap bar design, AND are significantly different from at least one of the rides ordered closed..Once again, the restraints on Xcelerator have already been redesigned compared to those used on the Superman coasters.

The wildcard here is the two Chutes rides. I have not been able to learn for certain how those rides compare to the new coasters. If Hydro happens to have the same restraint design as Xcelerator, then perhaps the assumption that Xcelerator is broken is reasonable. But we have no way of knowing that. All we really know right now is that no Intamin coaster other than the Superman: Ride of Steel...that is, no Intamin coaster that does not have the original lap bar design...has yet demonstrated a failure.

The bottom line: You can't fix it if it isn't broke. Obviously the Superman: Ride of Steel restraint is broken. I have not yet seen any evidence that the later coasters, from Millennium Force to Top Thrill Dragster, are also broken.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Nobody is against safety. I think there are a lot of us that are against overreactions and fixing problems that do not exist. Rideman says it best when he explains that the restraint systems on the 2 rides in California are not the same systems that have been involved in the prior accidents. Why stop there (2 rides)? Why not shut down all personal automobiles in California until the restraints on cars are redesigned? I assume that cars have had more restraint failures in California than either of the rides currently shut down. I use the absurd to illustrate the absurd. They are fixing problems that do not exist, or at least there is no evidence to suggest a problem exists. These 2 rides have run safely without incident. Why would we change the restraint system now? Any evidence to suggest a redesign would be safer than the records these rides currently have? Seems like they are messing with a good thing to me. I would hate to see people injured or killed after the redesign because some beurocrats are overreacting and lazily ordering an across the board fix without studying the safety records of the rides in question. What is not reasonable about my position?

I agree, it seems very bizarre that Xcelerator is included in all of this. Especially when you consider that the alterations Intamin made to the seat design had to be drastic enough to convince KBF to purchase another ride with the same type of restraint device. After the PP accident, I think its safe to assume that they were very very cautious about using the t-bars on an airtime machine like Xcelerator. It must have been quite the uphill battle for Intamin to convince them that the bars were safe.

OVER THE HEAD RESTRAINTS MUST BE INSTALLED ON ALL TYPES OF COASTER LAP RESTRAINTS ARENT STABLE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO BE CONSIDERED SAFE WHEN REVOLUTION AT MAGIC MOUNTAIN OPENED IT HAS 1 LOOP AND THEY WERE USING LAP RESTRAINTS IN 1992 They added THE OVER THE HEAD RESTRAINTS....YES WE KNOW SUPERMAN IS A 13 SEC RIDE BUT ITS REACHING SPEEDS AT 100 MPH REGUARDLESS HOW SHORT OR LONG THE RIDE OVER THE HEAD RESTRAINTS MUST BE USED ON ALL TYPES COASTER TO PROVIDE THE ULTIMATE SAFETY...THESE ARENT TOYS as much as they look like Toys

Please don't shout, Steel Coaster Exper!

If you want to bring Schwartzkopf lap bars into the argument, remember that no-one has ever been ejected from a Schwartzkopf coaster train that uses only lapbars. Indeed, when a Schwartzkopf shuttle loop broke down and left the train at the top of the loop for over an hour, no-one fell out. There were all sizes of passenger in the train, judging from the film clips that I saw. The retrofitting of the OTSRs onto Revolution has had little effect on the safety of the ride, but has made the insurers happy.

The rides that need looking at are those that produce strong negative G-forces, perhaps coupled with lateral G's. Being lifted up and then pushed sideways is a combination that is most likely to allow a rider to fall from a ride when there is minimal support/protection at the side of the car. A T-bar will allow the rider to rotate about the bar that rises from the floor, and if there is no lateral resistance to this motion, then the rider will simply rotate about their vertical axis. If negative G's have lifted your buttocks near to the level of the sloping sidebar on the Intamin seats, then this rotation will not be checked. Hence - deeper seats are needed (like on TTD) or the sloping sidebars need to be accompanied by another sidebar that extends horizontally, bends 90 degrees then connects to the front of the side of the seat. On my pictures of MF, the bottom of the lapbar is barely in line with the top of the side bar on the seat for a number of riders. Any slight play in the position of the lapbar (and failure of the seatbelt, of course) could be a problem. Anyone who has been caving will know that with a suitable force, you can squeeze a human body through very small gaps!

Superman - The Escape has no negative G's or lateral G's, so the restraint on this ride is primarily needed to stop people standing up and messing about.

One park I visited required that all coaters and water ride passengers should be able to support themselves in a seated position in order to be allowed to ride. I know that one effect of cerebral palsy is a lack of control of the muscles, and sufferers often have "out of control" limbs that have to be strapped down. Perhaps this was a factor, and the "must be able to support yourself in a seated position" rule might have helped to protect the rider that was ejected from S:ROS.

To: Steel Coaster Expert

Dude...before you post...brush up on your "hooked on phonics" skills. Once you've done that, take a deep breath, take a step back, and look at the big picture. There have been multiple millions of riders on coasters just within the past 10 years alone. They’ve been riding everything from t-bar, to clamshell, to over the shoulder rides alike. Only a hand full of accidents, with so few resulting in death, that any sober minded person would be stretching the truth by calling these deaths an epidemic. Now before you use the "even one death is one too many" argument, I challenge you to apply some relativity to that lecture. I’m not minimizing the needless death of an amusement park patron, but I don’t believe that modern day coaster designs, and safety restraints, pose a public health risk, at least not visibly illustrated in statistical data. Is there a fundamental design flaw with t-bar restraints? Yes, buy only under very specific passive and reactive operational conditions. The entire Intamin seating system may need to be redesigned, but with that said, if you are going to panic over this issue, than Kiddie Land many be more your speed. Otherwise, take a Valium, climb on board a rocket coaster, and enjoy the ride!*** This post was edited by Al Miner 6/3/2004 6:32:18 AM ***

Jim,

Re: DOSH/OSHA -- my only point is that *an* OSHA is involved. (DOSH even refers to itself as "Cal/OSHA" on its website.) I agree that its work is not arising from its jurisdiction over occupational health and safety (though I expect its expertise in those matters is why it was given this jurisdiction too), but simply thought that saying that OSHA has nothing to do with it is at least confusing; it would be more precise to say that the federal entity called OSHA is not involved, but that a state entity frequently called OSHA is.

In other words: Most states have their own entities called OSHA or something very similar. With the exception of California (so far as I know), they don't regulate rides except to the extent that it implicates worker safety. But in California, OSHA (aka DOSH) does. And in this case, California's OSHA *is* involved.

Jeff,

You *completely* missed my point. The point is the OTSRs on Storm Runner *do* secure riders at the waist/lap while having the extra benefit of some upper torso restraint. The bars do NOT hold you in by the shoulders but do present great difficulty for those wanting to defeat them. While the Arrow design's flaw is that it wants to secure the shoulders, the bars on Storm Runner do no such thing.

I know that when many of you think of OTSRs you think of Arrow loopers and those Premier abominations that are now only found on Speed: The Ride, and that is understandable as those are likely all the OTSRs you've experienced. But I'm telling you, ALL OTSRs ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. The Storm Runner OTSRs are more of a lap bar with benefits than what you all are thinking of an OTSR. The best thing I gan think to compare it to are the restraints on the SetPoint Swing Things, except the side bars are closer together.

Jeremy's point on "not all OTSR's are equal" is well-taken. I've been saying for a LONG time that it's preferable to secure a rider by the strongest bones in their body (the thighs) rather than some of the weakest (shoulders, and specifically the collar bones).

However, if properly designed, a system that comes down over the shoulders, but doesn't secure you by the shoulders, gets the advantages of both worlds.

That said, the blind closing of Xcelerator without taking into account that it is already a very different design, shows this is a reactionary move. That's not necessarily a bad thing -- play it safe -- but I wouldn't be too surprised if Xcelerator just ends up reopening with no modifications. Then again, I'm also surprised that the new restraints on the eastern Supermen don't just reflect the Xcelerator/Dragster trains.

I've seen Hydro mentioned a few times as if it hasn't got the newer design of T-bars - just to clarify, it does have the bent support (newer design).

Hydro has the new lap bars, but does it have the new seats? And how high is the floor? Does it have the toe boxes?

Truth is, most of us have no idea how Hydro compares to any of the other newer Intamin rides.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Interesting questions, Dave. I know it doesn't have any form of 'leg restraint' - the floor is a grille through which water can go through like a drain. It is flat from what I remember, and does not have toe boxes or foot holes.

Seats - um, not sure. I've tried looking for pictures of them, but they're few and far between. The only one I've found is at http://www.coasterclub.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=73 which doesn't really show the seat bottom not even by adjusting brightness/contrast in my photo editing program.

I've only ridden Hydro a few times, and of course I didn't pay attention to the restraints like I would have following these incidents.

The Hydro seats are nothing like the coaster seats; you don't 'sink' into them at all. It's kinda a standard splash-boats seat with the new lap-bar restraints. They do staple you in though and the belt is always very tight...

I only rode Hydro once, and I would have sworn that it didn't even have the bent T bar. If that's the case (and I don't doubt Marcus on that, as he's clearly more local than I am!) then wasn't the media in England mistaken when reporting that Hydro was running the same restraints as Perilous Plunge had been pre-harness? (Not that this would be any great surprise, mind you...)

Does Storm Runners supports obstruct the view and take away from an open ride experience?

J.R.S. *I* didnt feel that the bars in any way detracted from the ride. The best compliment that I can give them is that once I was seated and secured, I completely forgot that they were even there. When sitting in the third row, I still felt out of my seat over the entire inverted top hat.

Yeah, SR's OTSR's were awesome. I also completely forgot they were there. The only time I was "reminded" was during that sick S turn, kinda threw me into the side of the OTSR but it wasn't uncomfortable at all! They still give you a very open, yet secure feeling just like the T-bars do. Once again, I don't know why any of this is needed, don't allow people over 230 lbs on the ride (since that is the tolerance Intamin set when the rides were BUILT). And also, in the case of Hydro, make sure the bar is secure around the riders theighs, not a jacket around thier waist...

All this lunacy because ride ops failed to secure someone properly...

We still don't have any public report on how the Hyrdo accident happened, which I find very odd. I can't imagine that an average teenage girl was anything other than a victim of operator error, but who knows.

While we've concentrated on the fact that Xcelerator's seat/restraint is already a very refined, safer version, honestly Superman's is probably adequate for what it needs to do. SFMM's ride doesn't push airtime out of the car at all. Given the way gravity works, you could probably ride that thing with no lap bar and be safe as long as you didn't stand up.

Yeah I know how to fix all this all they have do is put a three D scanner in the que and custom make a seat and restraint for each rider.The biggest problem i see with this is the people who have ridden these before asking why did they change the lap bars and some know it all saying someone was thrown from "THIS" coaster.Thus implying that the park you are in would run an unsafe coaster.The time it will take to retrofit is not important to me.Will it be safer nobody can answer that yet.

P.S. the first sentence is sarcasm.*** This post was edited by kevin38 6/3/2004 8:34:31 PM ***