California shuts down rides with Intamin T-bar restraints

I guess Intamin is sorta in a bind now, because if Xcel's and TTD's seats are that much different than the SROS's then it's obvious they knew the Superman restraints weren't sufficient. By not sufficient I don't mean they don't work right, but that they leave to much to be examined by ride ops and have a higher probability for incorrect use. So with the now closure of Xcel, theres not much Intamin can say besides they knew that their other rides restraints weren't quite as safe as their newer ones, and that they allowed the parks to operate them without modification knowing full well there was a semi-decent chance something could go wrong.

I hate to say this, but I think they have to make these changes or move to something very, very worse - OTSRs

Great. I'll be in California in two weeks. This is perfect. Guess I won't be riding Xcelerator after all.

whats so bad about OTSR's? i dont get you people, they arent all that bad, i prefer them over the lapbar, especially the premier ones, they are comfortable as all hell...as long as the rollercoaster is designed right, OTSR's shouldnt be a problem...hell storm runner has OTSR's with a similar tophat, not as high and i havent heard complaints from it.

everyone needs to stop acting like they know anything and everything about the amusement park industry, that you are the experts and the parks are inexperienced yes men that just do everything without proper planning.

the new superman restraints might suck, but if YOU were a multibillion dollar industry with deaths on your coasters, and insurance companies on your ass, wouldnt you get it fixed as quick as possible but also as safe as possible...come on now people use your heads, just because you've taken the ride and played rollercoaster tycoon to death doesnt mean you know everything about reality

to sum it up, they dont just shut everything down just to piss all of you people off, they'r losing a LOT of money out of this so obviously they are either being forced, or *gasp* maybe they have safety of all of you guys in mind...im sure they'r all just as pissed off about everything closing as anyone else is, so why whine about it

Any word on when they're both (particularly Xcelerator) likely to reopen? I know this is kinda a small issue in relation to the bigger picture, but I'm coming all the way to SoCal from the UK at mid/late July and would be annoyed if Xcelerator's closed.

I just looked at the one pic of Xcelerator in the coaster section of this site... the pic where the train is descending from the top hat section.

The more I think of it, the more those seats on this coaster (as well as the Supermen) look like folding card table chairs on wheels.

Personally, give me the nice comfortable B&M T-bars (on the Hypers) or the B&M OTSR's (on the Floorless and Inverteds) anyday.

I dont think you want OSTR's on a hyper coaster...

can you honestly tell me that it feels GOOD when you're on Corkscrew at Cedar Point, and you hit that little bunny hill before the loop? That isn't air-time, and it hurts the shoulders. I can only imagine the pain felt if they put OSTR's on hyper-type coasters.

It's not even funny to think along those lines! Intamin probably just has to do a little major re-hab on their trains during the off-season to get them similar as to how Dragster feels.

Freak makes an exellent point. OTSRs are not made equal. The OTSRs on Hershey's Storm Runner, one could even argue are not even true OTSRs. There is a great emphasis that it is the *lapbar portion* that must contact the riders thighs, thereby securing those "femur" bones that enthusiasts tout so often. The *upper body portion* really doesnt seem to come into play at all during normal riding. However, if someone were to pass out or be an ass and try and *get* out, it would be extremely difficult to get from under the restraint.

Now, in the case of Storm Runner, I felt great airtime, and didnt hit my head on anything, even in the "whippy" lateral-intensive moments like the Snake Dive. To me, this seems to be a fair trade-off. Heck, I applaud Hershey for having foresight that was foriegn to me and apparantly a large segement of the enthusiast population who decried the OTSRs on prinicple alone.

lata, jeremy

I don't think he makes a good point at all. I think he's buying into the hype and the headlines.

You can't tell me that an OTSR secures your body better than a belt/bar at the waist. Schwarzkopf knew this, and it's the reason why dozens of his looping rides were built with lapbars. Even today, retrofitted rides have OTSR's not to better secure you, but to keep your hands down so they don't strike supports.

Premier Rides gets this, and they've challenged decades of Arrow-induced dogma to put lap bars on their looping rides. Many were retrofitted to lapbars in the last two years.

that sucks im going there in a month. will it be up and running by then.

I subscribe to the Dave Althoff school of thought once again... lap bars are safer than OTSRs. With a lap bar, you are holding the body at its strongest point- the mid-section. OTSRs hold the body at the shoulders, which is far weaker and much more prone to injury.

I don't like Stanley!!

Rob, I agree generally, but many OTSR's do actually restrain you at lap level - I get the feeling that they do on B&M's, certainly, and get the feeling that they hold you in at the lap with the 'overhead' bit being for upper body support.

To the guy who says safety is #1:

In fact the safest thing to do is not build or ride amusement devices at all. All mechanical devices have an inherent safety risk associated with their use. Can you show me even one mechanical device that has a 0% chance for accident or injury, even when used improperly? And since safety is #1, the logic dictates we need to just stop such a futile pursuit of fun/amusement since safety clearly trumps fun, if we use your logic. While we're at it, wouldn’t it be safer if everybody stayed at home and we stopped use of the automobile? What is more dangerous than the automobile? The great theorem of “safety is #1” would have to dictate that we rid ourselves of the automobile as such conveniences as travel and working more than a mile from home must of course take #2 to safety (#1)!

P.S. Accidents happen---Americans tend to overreact. We’ve lost common sense. Behold the result in just one small slice of human endeavor.

There are certainly going to be knee jerk reactions around, but really you can't still say that there is absolutely nothing remotely wrong or flawed with the Intamin seat/T bar design. How many riders have been ejected or fallen out of Intamin rides? S:ROS (SFNE), S:ROS (SFDL), Perilous Plunge, Hydro? How many have come out of B&M Hyper trains? GCI Millenium Flyer trains? S&S Thrust Air trains?

Now Granted Intamin has redesigned their seats and T bars, and to be fair none of the newer generation ones have failed yet (Xcel, TTD, Thunder Dolphin, Goliath SFH, Expedition GeForce). It still leaves too many "IFs" in the design of the restraint. The rider is secure IF the seatbelt is fastened AND IF the bar is down but only IF it is on the thighs of the rider, which is only garunteed IF the ride operator is paying perfect attention to all riders, and only IF the operator personally pushed your lapbar down and stapled you. I think Intamin really needs to make a deeper seat and a lapbar that is more fool proof, along with being more effecient. They should take some design notes from other successful T bar systems that have not been ejecting riders or allowing them to fall out.

-Ride_Op

Even the thought of an OTSR on Millenium sends a shudder through my bones.

Having rode it monday, I would say CP was on top of the situation thanks to what looked like a modified test seat and vigilant entrance ops, I saw 5 trains dispatched with no release of lapbars. And normal CP intervals seemed to be reached throughout the day. Granted I agree with both Jeffs comment and Mr. Smiths

Second, all of the deaths were from ops not enforcing restrictions, and throwing common sense to the wind. That the SFNE one especially would cause all of this is deeply troubling.

Third the Dragster seat is the solutioun not that thing that is clearly being rushed by Six Flags to try and save thier hopes of having profits.

For those not in the know, not only did Premier put in lapbars, but the seats were changed also. They are much deeper (and thus harder to get into and out of) than the old design.

Absolutely Reliable:

As you said yourself California DOSH is the agency involved in this. OSHA is not. OSHA has not authority in this case. OSHA has said nothing about this what so ever.

California DOSH has enforcement authority for OSHA in California, but it also has other authorities that have nothing what so ever to do with the Federal Ocuupational Safety and Health Act. Those are the authorities that it is using in this case.

Intamin Fan:

You are correct, and the depth of the seats is important to the overall restraint design.

Sharpel007,

Unless I missed something, the Hydro accident wasn't due to any lack or restrictions. I haven't heard anything about that accident recently.

-Sean

Wow, some of you really surprise me.

How can you call this an "over-reaction"? I mean, how many deaths need to be related to these t-bar restraints before somebody finally says, "Hey, maybe we should change something here." I'd rather be safe and regardless of all of the assumed expertise many of you have, I'd rather have the professionals decide whether the ride is safe.

I can understand people that are disappointed when they're making the trek out to California and spending thousands of dollars to do so and will be denied a ride on a coaster they were looking forward to, remember that your safety comes before enjoyment.*** This post was edited by SFGAMDie HARD 6/2/2004 9:08:18 PM ***