B&M Dip n' Dive?

It's obvious that every coaster manufacture has certain "trademarks." To me, with B&M it was their dip n dive's, That little pre-drop right before the dive. I think it make the ride better. However, now with the recent Hypercoasters (Nitro, Silverstar) and flying coasters (Air, S:UF), it is clear that B&M is slowly getting ride of that little drop. I know that the drop is there to reduce the pull of the chain on the first drop. Nitro was the first beemer with the drop right off the lift. I heard this was because SFGAdv was working with limited space. They did the same thing with Silverstar and their flying coasters. I heard the little drop on Apollo's chariot was fun and made the ride better. Do you think they're getting rid of these? It's not a big deal. I was just curious and was wondering if anyone else noticed.

I noticed that too. I think it is B&M's trademark kinda thing. I think it's there to get the whole train off the lift hill, so it can pick up speed better. The back still gets yanked down, but not from off the lift. With Nirto and SliverStar not having that dip, I think it's to make it more "classic".

On another note, wouldn't the train being pulled off the lift do any kind of damage to the lift chain? I've always wondered that. It seems it wouldn't because of how many do that, but I was just wonderin'.

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If you like Wicked Twister in the back, does that mean you like to get screwed in the rear?

Well A hyper doesnt look as good with that dip, but a floorless or other kinds it looks better, and make you more excited.

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Im the #1 Canobie Lake Park Fan!!!These are my top 3 coasters:
1. S:RoS @ SFNE 2. Yankee Cannonball 3. Cyclone/B:TDK

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rentzy387 said:
I heard this was because SFGAdv was working with limited space.

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I would bet Talia (my cat) that that was not the reason!

Antuan -

Lucky you because you're still keeping it ;)

Why would the dip save wear on the chain? It's ratcheted so it flows smoothly forward.

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The dip lessens the grab of the chain. The dip is so the chain lets go of the train completely before it goes down the first hill. It lessens the "pull" of the chain.

What pull? As soon as the coaster is moving forward on its own, it disengages the chain. The chain dog is just like the anti-rollbacks (in fact, Jack Rabbit at KW's antirollback is just another section of chain stuck to the track). It exerts no force when moving relatively forward of the chain. Only when it is applying force backwards. There's no pull on the chain except when it's pulling the car up.

Example: Demon at SFGAm. goes flying up it's second lift hill, and most of the time doesn't even engage the chain, but it doesn't pull the chain anywhere. The chain just keeps going at its normal speed.

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I think they do it because for the smaller b&ms they need that more speed so they won't have the train hang off the lift so they put the dip, but on the bigger ones Nitro and S.S they are already tall so they won't probably need it. I am probably wrong I don't know why the didn't put the dip on those 2 and the flyers.

Wait a second Demon has two lift hills?

I do think that is a possibilty Jay Rider but not because of height issues. Raptor or BKF for instance give you a lot of speed and force on the drop no matter where you sit. There are few things that come close to getting yanked a twisted back the way you came like on BKF.

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The Beast and Night, They go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly

*** This post was edited by MagnumForce on 8/9/2002. ***

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ApolloAndy said:
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Example: Demon at SFGAm. goes flying up it's second lift hill, and most of the time doesn't even engage the chain, but it doesn't pull the chain anywhere. The chain just keeps going at its normal speed.

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"

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What are you talking about? Demon has one and only one lift hill

I believe he was referring to another set of anti-rollbacks on Demon's second main hill... Though I'm not positive as to whether or not Demon has them, I know many wooden coasters do.

Interestingly, the "dip and dive" characteristic of a few B&M coasters is almost identical to those used on many Corkscrew coasters of the early 80's A good example would be...well, 'Corkscrew' at Alton Towers, it's almost exactly the same as the initial element of Kraken ( a lot smaller of course). I think this feature is used to produce stronger negative Gs on the first 'big' drop as the crest of the hill is negotiated at a higher speed than it would have been if have the train was still being held back by the chain lift. I'm sure the other reasons are equally valid, though!

*** This post was edited by BeyondOblivion on 8/9/2002. ***

A train cannot be "held back" by the lift chain. Once the train is rolling faster than the chain is moving, it is free of the chain. The first paragraph of Apollo Andy's post above explains this very well.

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"Look, we all go way back, and uh, I owe you from the thing with the guy in the place and I'll never forget it." "That was our pleasure." "I'd never been to Belize."

*** This post was edited by bigboy on 8/9/2002. ***

This makes sense. Almost every B&M coaster I have been on has had the dip and dive. Kumba's is really fun! hehe

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Does this thing go faaaaaast!

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I-Nar said:
"I believe he was referring to another set of anti-rollbacks on Demon's second main hill... Though I'm not positive as to whether or not Demon has them, I know many wooden coasters do."

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Demon has only one lift hill. There are no anti-rollbacks

I thought the dip was there to deliver enough speed to also give the front rows the 'jank' down. But i could be wrong though...

*edit* i just see i'm quoting Beyondoblivion...

*edit* and Magnumforce...

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I'm proud of ALL my mayor malfunctions!

*** This post was edited by Helios on 8/9/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by Helios on 8/9/2002. ***

That is what I was referring to Helios.

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All I need is 4.5 million bucks and a half a mile long sliver of land and maybe someone could build me my very own Shivering Timbers. ;)

Apollo Andy (and others) are right. The chain dog will not pull on the chain once the train crests the left, because it is a sprong loaded ratchet-type device.

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the member formerly known as MisterX

Raging Bull at SFGAm has that dip and I think it is one of the things that makes that drop one of the best.

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