BeastBuzz 2013: The triumphant return!

I assume that fee goes to Accesso, the company that does the online ticketing.

Well, everyone needs to get paid, I guess. :)

I can't believe that Cedar Fair / Six Flags and others using Accesso are passing the costs of doing business onto the customer. If they can't profitably pay those fees themselves, then they need to come up with a better alternative. I think Accesso sucks anyway; it's slow and cumbersome.

Just think if Amazon.com applied a $6 processing fee to every transaction. Especially considering smaller purchases <$10, a $6 fee would kill so much business. It reminds me of the frowned-upon practice of making customers pay the credit card fees on transactions. If profit margins are so tight that paying the 2-4% credit card fee isn't sustainable, then it doesn't sound like a very strong business to me.

My initial thought is why not just tie it in to the ticket cost - people are generally predictable and dumb. Show them the fee and they complain. Don't tell them it exists and no one even thinks twice.

But I'm not sure how it'd work given the range of events/prices/codes they sell tickets under.

Still have to wonder why it just doesn't get tied into the cost of business so that the customer isn't so blatantly aware of it.

Make no mistake about it, you're paying for it either way. Just seems like it'd be easier not to mention it. If there's one thing I've learned discussing the financials of the industry here over the years, its that people don't want to be told explicitly where their money is going...just talk about all the great things they get for their money.

Hell, add $2 a ticket and sell the fact that you dropped processing fees. Joe Sixpack will be paying $8 instead of $6 for his order for the family, but he'll be praising Kings Island for it.

The whole charade is so ridiculous.

That makes a lot of sense, Gonch, but it's the not being told up front how much it is that gets me.

You don't go to the checkout at Best Buy with your weekly purchase of DVDs and CDs and get a cashier surcharge added on. Gas stations don't add a "pump operators fee" to your fuel purchase. Hidden fees are misleading. Just tell me how much up front.

It reminds me of the As Seen on TV advertisements. They will send you a second whatever absolutely free, "Just pay separate shipping and handling!" lol How much is shipping and handling?

That's one easy alternative...rolling the cost into all prices, and here's why it makes so much more sense that way...

The fee is proportional to the purchase price. Right now the system is seriously flawed, because a customer purchasing a $10 meal ticket would have to pay $16, or 60% in fees. A customer buying $300 of tickets for their family pays $306, or 2% in fees. So, the current system is likely killing off many of the smaller, individual sales. After the $10 online meal deal ticket jumps to $16, you're better off just buying the food in park.

Could you imagine how well a new grocer in town would do if they advertised food prices 1/3 off other local grocers... Then, after your groceries are all scanned up, fees start being tacked on. Credit card processing fee 3%, distribution fee 7%, storage fee 3%, utilities fee 4%, property fee 18%, employee compensation fee 15%. Notice these fees add up to 50%, and your total is the same as other grocers in the area that have worked the fees into their pricing. Which store would have more complaints?

Jeph said:

Which store would have more complaints?

Obviously the one that added the fees separately because no one does it that way.

It's not like processing fees (or even Travis's S&H example) are a new or uncommon phenomenon. To be taken aback by it is kind of funny to me.

I get what we're saying here and even kind of agree. I don't understand why stuff like this isn't just wrapped into the cost of doing business, but at the same time I don't really get the complaining. It is what it is. You're paying it either way.

Either people aren't complaining or the complaints don't matter...which is probably what would ultimately happen at your fictional grocery store.

As an aside...

The higher the amount the purchase is, the higher the fee is.

Is this how Accesso works? I would've expected it to be a 'per transaction' fee.

I'm saying that by rolling the fee into pricing, you can give everyone an invisible proportional fee, which wouldn't devastate the smaller sales.

I'm not sure how Accesso's business works, but I'd expect that they're paying the credit card/Paypal fees, fraud filtering, and all the costs of the online transaction. So, I'd expect their costs on higher transactions to actually be proportionately higher.

But, they seem to be charging a flat fee per transaction to make it simpler for customers to understand. If they had a straight 5% processing fee for example, perhaps they fear people being upset over a confusing $25 fee on a $500 purchase. Maybe there are even legal problems that way. I'm not sure.

For the record, I'm not complaining that extra processing fees are something new. But for big companies like Cedar Fair / Six Flags to have this strategy in 2013 is shocking. They don't have employee / credit card fees for transacting in park, so they shouldn't have online processor fees for transacting online. Having an online business myself, I think this is a terrible strategy that will hold back some of the strong online growth while negatively impacting customer satisfaction.

I suspect that it's a lot easier to market a "super low price" and defend the hidden fees because "everybody does it" than it is to market a higher price with no fees included.

Obviously there's starting to be a few exceptions to that rule. Southwest Airlines advertising "no fees!" being the one that immediately comes to mind.

Interesting.... I was just comparing the Six Flags vs Cedar Fair vs Kennywood processing fees, which all use the same Accesso processing platform.

1. Cedar Fair charges a flat $5.99 fee per transaction, no matter if the item is a drink bottle, meal ticket, or admission ticket. It's funny that the $5 Dinosaurs Alive ticket comes with the 120% fee, or $10.99 for an advance purchase online.

2. Six Flags charges a $7.99 fee for a transaction that contains an admission ticket, but no fee at all for drink bottles, meal tickets, parking, or Flash Pass.

3. Kennywood charges a $1.00 fee PER admission ticket purchased. There is no fee charged for food or any of the other extras that I could see.

So, it'd appear that these processing fees are something that the park decides. Whether all the collected fee money goes to Accesso is unknown. If it does, then Kennywood scored the best contract, or maybe they're footing part of the bill.

Cedar Fair used to use their own simple ticket processing software (like Holiday World, Busch, Disney and others do), where all tickets and items had no processing fees. I'm guessing they decided to add the Accesso middle man so they could reduce their own resources and pass the fees for the service to the customer. We'll see how this plays out long term, but for now, I grabbed a Beast Buzz ticket. ;-)

Jeph said:

Interesting.... I was just comparing the Six Flags vs Cedar Fair vs Kennywood processing fees, which all use the same Accesso processing platform.

See? Everyone does it. Why are we surprised?

So, it'd appear that these processing fees are something that the park decides. Whether all the collected fee money goes to Accesso is unknown. If it does, then Kennywood scored the best contract, or maybe they're footing part of the bill.

You're just seeing three different ways of handling it.

Right off the bat you can see how it all equates. A family of 5 is paying $5.99 in fees at CF and $5 at Kennywood. I'm guessing SF:

1. Possibly sees larger online orders on average (which I'd buy given their clientele)

2. Possibly sell a lot of the 'extras' online too and can easily justify the higher fee.

3. Are just big mean jerks and rub their hands together and laugh maniacally everytime someone places an online order and the extra $2 goes into their bank account.

And regarding the smaller items - they're all thing you buy once inside the park...for the same price. Cedar Fair is likely not losing sales on those things. Seriously, who is buying just a single Dinosaurs Alive! ticket online? No one. The 120% fee is irrelevant because it doesn't happen.

We'll see how this plays out long term...

I believe Six Flags has been charging a fee to print tickets online for at least 4 years now. And other have jumped on board - even smaller places like KW. So I'd guess it's played out pretty well for the parks. Not much to 'wait and see' on.

(Actually the reactions in that linked thread are pretty hilarious - just another example and the enthusiast overreaction to things that have become common practice in the time since...kind of like when people claimed VQ was going to put parks out of business. Ha!

Even more interesting is my correct, insightful and broken record reply. I'm a prohphet.)

I have a question about this. Why was there no fee for the purchase of my Platinum Pass? I bought it at the park, but I had to go to a computer connected to the internet and buy it online anyways, because I set up the payment option. Just curious.

I bought ours online and paid the $5.99 fee.

You bought it online at home, or at the park? I am assuming at home, because you might be unaware that the park makes you go to a computer to make the purchase online anyways. You did the payment plan, right?

Maybe the fee was waived because I purchased it at the park. Or maybe I paid the fee and didn't notice.

No, I'm following you.

I did ours at home. I also did the payment plan (because if I can use somebody else's money for free, I do).

I'd be interested to know if you paid the fee or not for sure.

Did you just go to the same Kings Island website and order it or was it something different?

I just looked at the email that shows my payment plan, and I did pay $5.99 more in the first payment. How anticlimactic. lol

Heh. Yeah, they tie it into the initial payment.

I guess you can't use somebody else's money for free. ;)

Gonch, there have been many times that I've thought about purchasing a meal ticket or a ticket for a friend in advance, but knowing that a $6 processing fee exists, I choose a better alternative or pass altogether. If you encourage guests to advance purchase items in the park, you've already locked in the sale. There's no risk that they get to the park and decide that they'd rather just ride coasters all day than do DA, Challenge Park, and other add-ons.

The 3 methods parks are using with Accesso semi-equate with your ideal scenario that every customer is a family of 5, but in reality, I imagine that's rarely the case. I would bet the average number of tickets purchased together would be slightly above 2 (excluding discounted group sales, which you can't do online).

Clearly the parks have some say with Accesso's fee collection method, and Kennywood's model is vastly superior to the other 2. No small or individual pre-sales are harmed, and the processing fee is significantly lower for the average customer.

I picture a future where your credit card is tied to your phone, and you can quickly buy a ticket for anything in the park in seconds, where you just scan your phone. The ease of doing this could score a ton of extra sales, but if there's a $5.99 processing fee each time you use it, it won't work.

Jeph said:

Gonch, there have been many times that I've thought about purchasing a meal ticket or a ticket for a friend in advance, but knowing that a $6 processing fee exists, I choose a better alternative or pass altogether. If you encourage guests to advance purchase items in the park, you've already locked in the sale. There's no risk that they get to the park and decide that they'd rather just ride coasters all day than do DA, Challenge Park, and other add-ons.

If the parks were losing significant sales to fees, it wouldn't be set up the way it is. Single small purchases online are likely the exception to the rule (at the very least, an acceptable loss).

I would bet the average number of tickets purchased together would be slightly above 2 (excluding discounted group sales, which you can't do online).

Maybe. I'm not suggesting the average is 5. I am suggesting that it's a more realistic scenario than 1.

Clearly the parks have some say with Accesso's fee collection method, and Kennywood's model is vastly superior to the other 2. No small or individual pre-sales are harmed, and the processing fee is significantly lower for the average customer.

Lots of opinion and hyperbole in here. Let me break it down further...

Clearly the parks have some say with Accesso's fee collection method...

I'm sure any company using it is paying the same fees to Accesso. The only difference you're seeing is how it's being presented to you, the customer.

...and Kennywood's model is vastly superior to the other 2.

Pure opinion.

No small or individual pre-sales are harmed...

True.

and the processing fee is significantly lower for the average customer.

Speculation on what the average is and liberty taken with the definition of significant.

I picture a future where your credit card is tied to your phone, and you can quickly buy a ticket for anything in the park in seconds, where you just scan your phone. The ease of doing this could score a ton of extra sales, but if there's a $5.99 processing fee each time you use it, it won't work.

First off, the $5.99 isn't a credit card fee. You seem to be using the low percentage credit card fees and the Accesso fee (whatever all it includes) interchangably. It's two completely different things. With that said...

Agreed and here's how it would work under a fee-based system. Your purchases would be tallied and processed as a single transaction.

The customer would see it presented as a $5.99 to use their phone to make in-park purchases all day long. Wouldn't matter if you spent $1 or $100 - the fee would be $5.99.

Heck, in some sort of twisted way it might encourage people to spend more because of the fee.

Lord Gonchar said:
First off, the $5.99 isn't a credit card fee. You seem to be using the low percentage credit card fees and the Accesso fee (whatever all it includes) interchangably. It's two completely different things.

Where'd I say $5.99 was a credit card fee? Read my 3:04AM post again to see what I think the $5.99 Accesso fee is.

I was saying that when a company comes up with a streamlined payment processing solution for phones, and Cedar Fair adopts it, if they make customers pay a fee for every transaction that is processed by phone (similar to what they're doing to every transaction processed online), then I can't see it being a success.

It's as if they're resisting the evolution of business, and trying to force people to buy things the old way of waiting in lines and using hired employees. If you don't do it the old way, you get hit with fees.