Avatar at PKI not considered a coaster?

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:57 AM
Pagoda Gift Shop's avatar This took me by surprise. After looking in both the Coasterbuzz and rcdb.com indices, Avatar is nowhere to be found. I'm sure you could argue for reasons that it is not a coaster, but there exist so many which are called "coasters" despite arguable reasons that they are not.

So what's up?

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:51 AM
It's clearly a powered ride. Not sure why RCDB lists Zamperla Dragon Coasters but not this, but it's definitely not a coaster.
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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:01 AM
Coasters do not have an internal power source. Power is always applied externally via a chain, launch mechanism, etc.

Also the power application to coaster cars only occurs during a relatively small part of the overall track. During the remainder of the ride, the motion is entirely dependent on gravity and momentum.


Arthur Bahl

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:33 AM
I'm warning all three of you... the cans are on the table and begging to be opened. But I'm begging you to keep them closed. ;)

Oh... what the heck. Are log flumes coasters, Arthur?


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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:43 AM
Some people put Flumes in a separate catergory of ride called "water coasters" along with Shoot the Chutes rides and Whitewater rides that are wet throughout (except possibly on the lift). Normally regular coasters are dry throughout except that they may have a splashdown (eg. DLs Matterhorn Bobsleds).

Not that long ago we had a thread that discussed with the issue of what actually counts as a "credit". That thread delved into matters such as whether drop towers are coasters or whether the gravity powered darkrides at Conneaut Lake and Camden should be counted.


Arthur Bahl

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:49 AM
DawgByte II's avatar If it's not on RCDB, it doesn't count... plain & simple! :)

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:14 PM
Arthur: What about the Schwarzkopf Jumbo Jet or Speedracer? Those coasters use motorized cars to get up the lift...

Avatar is powered throughout, therefore is clearly a !coaster.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:20 PM
I rode Avatar for the first time this week myself... and I have to admit that I am torn.

It was kind-of a coaster, yet kin-of not.

I have no idea if I will count it or not. Hmmmmmm...

Shaggy

P.S. It was actually a lot more fun that I had thought it would be!


Shaggy

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:40 PM
Avatar looks like a giant Rocking Tug, clearly not a coaster to me.

But I also don't consider Wicked Twister and the like to be coasters, so I'm probably not qualified to judge anything.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:52 PM
I remember the debate on gravity dark rides. As i recall, we did not reach an agreement on whether they are or aren't coasters.

I'd say they (CLP's Devils Den and the like) are. Fixed circuit, chain lift, single drop and it coasts thru the course via gravity.


Great Lakes Brewery Patron...

-Mark

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:55 PM
rollergator's avatar Zamperla says it doesn't "coast", that's good enough for me...like Shaggy, though, I had more fun on it than I expected...

Also, rcdb lists powered rides (see: Thunder Run at PCW). Some Dragon Wagons ARE powered, others use gravity.

I'mtorn on a couple of different front in terms of "credits", so right now I'm somewhere between 485-520....LOTS of gray areas, LOL.

edit: FLYINGSCOOTER, I don't think Devil's Den, Dante's Inferno, and the like truly "coast throughout", I believe they all go under power for speed control immediately AFTER the gravity drop...they DO coast momentarily though.

*** Edited 8/23/2006 4:56:53 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:56 PM

DawgByte II said:
If it's not on RCDB, it doesn't count... plain & simple! :)

Yes, but RCDB also lists powered coasters. Any real enthusiast knows a powered coaster is not a real coaster. :)

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:00 PM
Devils Den and its sister ride at Camden don't run atop rails (they do have a slotted guiderail) but they do have a definite track. I would say, they should be counted for the same reason that a bobsled coaster or a Virginia Reel should be counted. (I don't know of any Virginia Reels being around now but if you rode one in the past, go ahead and count it.

Arthur Bahl

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:07 PM
Gator: I'm pretty sure that Devils Den and Camden's Haunted House are completely gravity-driven after the chain lift. The cars even coast through the station. The operating pushes the car to the chain lift and they have to be manually stopped by a ride op grabbing the car.

I don't know if I would really call them a coaster though as they were designed first and foremost to be darkrides. This is different from putting a regular coaster in the dark. Not sure where this places Locosumo and The Underground. But there is a nice way end the debate: just don't keep a track record!

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:13 PM
http://www.laffinthedark.com/articles/conneaut/clp.htm

Considering the subject, i thought somebody might like this.


Great Lakes Brewery Patron...

-Mark

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:03 PM
Avatar clearly is powered most of the time and is not coasting that much. That right there to me makes it not a coaster. But, it still was lots of fun.
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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:49 PM
rollergator's avatar ^^^ VERY interesting, millrace. I was under the impression that these rides only *coasted* thru the drop/rise into the next area of the ride. Now I guess I'll re-re-re-evalute Underground with this new knowledge. And considering the number of Pretzel rides I've ridden, I'm *thatmuch* closer to the 500 mark...LOL!

Would be kinda cool to have ONE "landmark ride" that I'm aware of...is there a *gravity darkride* in Denver that I can use for #500...since I don't specifically COUNT powered rides, hehe. But, like KerSplash and Timber Mtn. Log Ride, I have no requirement for "mostly coaster", "some coaster", "mostly darkride", etc.

All without leaving the continent - maybe I am a "homer"?!!??

*** Edited 8/23/2006 6:53:57 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:40 PM
DawgByte II's avatar After looking at Avatar (not riding it), I'm almost convinced it doesn't quite fall in the lines of a coaster. It looks like a Rock-n-Tug, just themed to that horrible Avatar show...

...HOWEVER, the Intamin Half-Pipe coaster is vaguely similar to the overall style, so some may argue that if Avatar isn't a coaster, why is the Intamin Half-Pipe considered a coaster? The answer is: Ida know... because it's much bigger? Because it's manufacture is Intamin?

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:11 PM

rollergator said:
...And considering the number of Pretzel rides I've ridden, I'm *thatmuch* closer to the 500 mark...LOL!

Most Pretzel rides are not gravity driven. The only two gravity Pretzel rides that I know of are at Conneaut and Camden. Personally I don't count them as coasters but this was real borderline for me. I can understand why many enthusiasts do count them.

However if you try to count all Pretzel rides, then you will have to be slapped.

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Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM
rollergator's avatar ^ Don't worry, I slap myself routinely... ;)

What about Dante's Inferno at Coney NYC, can I count that? :)

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