Well to be honest, I like Arrow Loopers. Every Arrow looper than I've been on has been WAY more intense than any B&M looper that I've been on. With the exeption of Batman: The Ride. I'm telling you, Viper (SFMM) was so awesome from about 1990-1996. Then the bumpiness came. I say it was at it's best around 1993. Well I was only 11, so maybe I didn't really know what a coaster was supposed to be like.
IMO they are my least favorite coasters. Although a while back I used to like them, The Ninja at SFOG was my favorite coaster, but know it is a total headbanging. I went on Viper at SFMM last summer it hurt so bad. Especially the turn at the top of the first hill. I had a headache the whole rest of the day. I also rode Tennessee Tornado at DW and it was a bit rough but really no pain like Ninja or Viper. The only arrow looper I like now is Corkscrew at CP.
I dunno...Demon at SFGAm is still pretty smooth considering its age. It is still one of the best Arrow loopers I've ever been on and it probably ranks as my fave coaster of all time. I never get tired of riding it, especially at night. Corkscrew comes in as a tie probably, only because it has actual airtime.
------------- "Brak presents the Brak show starring Brak!!!"
Every Arrow looper I have been on has been smooth to me. Maybe I can just take and punch and thats the difference. Anyways, Viper at the Mountain is still quite smooth in my opinion. Well I say if you don't like em, don't ride em. Keep the lines short for me.
When these coasters were introduced they all seemed fun, but over the years they've declined on my list. The main problem, as always, is the OTSR. I think people who DON'T get head banging have a taller torso and/or neck and can "clear" the ping pong ball sensation most of us get with our heads on such rides.
I don't say close them or scrap them BUT they are usually "one ride only" on my list. And as for the headbanging, I stand outside these rides every time to see if I'm alone and always here a stream of people say their heads hurt.
Maybe someday the restraints can be rethought to let everyone sit back and enjoy the ride, not just brace themselves for the nearly inevitable pain.
And by the way,IMHO, I'd take a B & M over an Arrow any day. ------------- "You have to scale a lot of lift hills to coast easily..."
My god, I love Arrow Loopers. Hell, I've only been on one, and I can already say Arrow's better than B&M. The Vortex is definitely my favorite steal coaster. It's great. Super smooth, minimal headbanging most of the time, tons of air time, the kind tha gets me 6inches off my seat, and some great inversions, such as the ultra-slow corkscrew that makes ya fall outta yer seat. And if Tennessee Tornado is any example of what Arrow can do with up-to-date tech like B&M, they'll make a big comeback soon.
I can take headbanging so I like Arrow loopers. Vortex at PKI is one of my favorites and I loved Steel Phantom. For the record, I've heard just as many people complain about headbanging on Mantis as I have Arrow loopers, so not even B&M is perfect, although I do suppose most of their coasters ride super smooth.
Hmm, I've liked all of the Arrow loopers I've been on. GASM at Great Adventure looked enormous to me when it was first built. I was terrified of it. But now I find it pretty fun. As for the OTSR, I find the Vekoma SLC restraints to be much more painful to the ears (especially if it's cold out- Eeouch!- wear a hood), but on the Arrows, I sometimes crack my jaw on the otsr during the batwing elements. Now that hurts! Jennifer
------------- S:ROS rides @SFDL for 2000- 139!
Favorite Steel- Superman: Ride of Steel- SFDL The Incredible Hulk- IOA Batman & Robin: The Chiller- SFGrAD Favorite Wood- Lightning Racer- Hersheypark Silver Comet- Martin's Fantasy Island Wildcat- Hersheypark
Personally, I love Arrows, except for the bad transitions on to their straight track. They definately are much more intense then most of the B&M's I have ridden, and they are the originals:). Anyway, best of luck to them with what ever their next big project is, I am sure it will be great.
------------- Where would we be without the rumor mill?
Well I've stated many a time that I am an admitted HUGE Arrow Fan. The only Arrow that gave me pain was Shockwave @ SFGAm. Belive it or not, it wasnt because of the transition into the block brake nor the corkscrews, it was the fact that SFGAm had the brake on SO high that your head would slam into the seat back. No side-to-side motion, just front-to-back. This year the brake was on MUCH lighter and I really enjoyed it.
Furthermore, I dont think that "exit polls" about head pain really say much against Arrow as opposed to other companies. When we got off of Hulk, my friend complained that it beat him up. That said, Vortex(PKI) and B:KF(SFO) are my two favorite sitdown loopers.
I will chime in with Florida Flier on this one. I cannot believe that some of you claim "no headbanging" on most Arrow Loopers! I must admit, Viper at SFMM was my favorite ride for quite a while, but that was before I knew inversions CAN happen without getting snot knocked out of you. Some laps are worse than others, but for the most part, Arrow loopers deliver big thrills and big pain.
There are a few smoothER Arrows out there, Demon @ PGA comes to mind, but even that is about the same as the roughest B@M I have ridden, Mantis.
Some people complain about B&M's large loopers (mostly floorless) as being too tame, well I would take a ride on Medusa(W) any day over Viper or Vortex (PKI). Besides B&M have plenty of different types of inversions, at least 12, (vertical loop, dive loop, incline loop, corkscrew, in-line twist, zero-G roll, cobra roll, sea serpent, immelmann, reverse immenmann, batwing, pretzle) while Arrow uses only about 4 different ones (vertical loop, corkscrew, batwing, pretzle). Correct me if I got some of the inversion names wrong.
Most Arrow loopers are flawed in that the train/track design leaves too much room for the trains to bounce around in the track. If you watch an Arrow train roll, you can see that the guide and friction wheels do not make constant contact with the rail. So when it gets to a turn, the wheels are suddenly forced against the rails. Taken at higher speeds, this can be outright painful. It's also not limited to loopers. Magnum does this all the way through the pretzel, though it's not a big deal if the wheels are in good shape.
Compare this to B&M's train/track system (not to say they're better, only to compare the stuff). In this case, all three wheels make constant contact with the rails, forcing the trains to follow the precise path of the track. There is no bouncing around as the train hunts for the rails.
Another force at work makes the rides "sloppy" as well. The ties are very large and prone to bending, not to mention spaced too far apart allowing the rails to bend. Compare this to B&M where the ties are very short and frequent, or Intamin where there are no ties at all and the rails are welded right to the triangular or box spine. Magnum's pretzel shows the wear really well with patterned paint wear between the ties.
The final problem is just some really violent transitions. The worst I've felt is the one up to the mid-course on Shockwave at SFGAm.
Anyway, the only one I've been on that wasn't so bad was Loch Ness Monster at BGW, and with the tender loving care they seem to give the rides there, I'm not surprised.
------------- Jeff Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Thank you, Jeff, for giving us some technical backup to this touchy subject.
As for Arrow itself, I applaud them for creating the technology and paving the way for what we have now. But like the inventor of 8-Track tapes, I have no problem abandoning them and moving forward to mini-discs and dvds!
I hope they "catch up" and learn from the technology and innovations created by the newer companies and designers, so we ALL can benefit.
As for riding Arrows or Vekoma headbangers, I will ride every coaster I see just to say I did it, but I certainly know what types I prefer and what I'll ride again and again.
------------- "You have to scale a lot of lift hills to coast easily..."