Are all SF parks like this?

Yeah the drawbacks from running at full capacity is the wear and tear on the trains, the extra people it takes to keep the trains from stacking, and of course the electricity. Although all of the above are worth it to keep people out of line and happy. Also the longer you keep people in line the less time they have to spend money in gift shops and for food. Thats the reason for all of the virtual queueing devices around. They are there to get guests to spend more money in the shops and for food and help them stay out of the lines so in theory a park would want to always operate at full capacity to keep people out of the line.

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Mike
Favorite Wood: Viper at SFGAM,Shivering Timbers
Favorite Steel: Magnum and Raging Bull

Paramount was running one train on Anaconda and one train (with a whopping capacity of 8 people per train) on Hypersonic XLC opening day. The location of the other trains was a mystery for both rides. Guests definitely notice when other trains aren't on the track as during the Batwing fiasco (Thanks Vekoma).
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If you have a problem with clones, the solution is real simple—Stop traveling.

On opening day there is some excuse. Trains may have not gotten out of rehab yet.

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Lets go its on!
Visit History of PKI!

Anaconda was certainly not an issue, but H:XLC did get really annoying.

I don't think trains cost millions of dollars, but I really have no idea. I was under the impression that it was more in the few hundred thousand. (Well, for an non-prototpye style train. X's trains are a whole different story).

In regard to S:RoS SFNE, I never saw them run less than maximum trains "just for the heck of it" in 7 visits last year. Granted, 4 of those were single train op because the other train wasn't ready (the accident) and 1 was single train op but there were a total of 6 people in line at 11a that day. (It was a *walk-on*. We got 11 rides and did everything else in about 3 hrs.).

As for B:DK, they did have single train days early in the season, but it was pretty obvious that it was for mechanical, as they had been running two trains, but took one off even while the line was still an hr.

So, while SFNE isn't a capacity monster, I can't fault them for leaving trains that they had ready off the track. (Why it took them 11 months to get a second train ready is beyond me, but that's a whole 'nother question.)

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"faster, cheaper, and more often" that's somebody's new sig -UpsideDawnGrrrl
My shirt in my photo seems to be for "Aging Bull"

Yup,in the case of Batwing we know where the other 2 trains are,they're always parked in station 2 or on the transfer track.

Hopefully that's all gonna change this year.

I am fairly certain that we could all recount stories of every park not running at capacity. The question is, do certain parks do that frequently?

From a business side, there is an 'opportunity cost' in running all coasters at full capacity, regardless of attendance. Management would have to 'weigh' the options of the financial cost of the wear and tear on the ride, compared to the lost income from people saying 'we don't feel like going to the park because of the lines'. I am guessing this is a very fine line, and some park chains tend to walk on one side of that line or the other.

To be honest, I don't think ANY of us would be completely happy unless we were the only people in the park.

BTW, I was at SFoG on Saturday and I have to ask, what's the deal with SUF taking so long to load? Which then makes me ask, why would they only use one side of the station when the line is 2 hours long?

Fever

SFWoA can often run only one train. They ran Villain with only one train almost the entire season. XF usually ran one or two. Big Dipper only one. Serial Thriller most of the time runs two trains. BKF also runs two trains most of the time. RWB ran only one train. Double Loop only had one train on the track. So even as a devoted SFWoA fan, I must say the park has a capacity problem. I heard that this year, the park is going to do their best to run the rides at full capacity. Lets hope they're not just saying that.

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A.K.A. Batman Bastard

Gator, you bring up Universal. You're right. Don't let anyone tell you that DD with one train per side runs the same as any other B&M inverter with two. That was a horrible experience.

SFGAm spoils me. I had been to other SF parks, but I never noticed one train operation (not at SFFT, at WoA, sure, but it never mattered) until I went to SFMM.

Batman: the Ride. Queue to the storm drain entrance. One train. Hell.

Anyway, coaster895 stole my thunder... :) While you do get a certain wear and tear on the trains and ride by running more than is minimally necessary, you also keep people in line, and off of upcharge attractions, out of consession stands, and away from the souveniers.

That said, unless the maintenance on the trains/ride were that involved, or a problem, I can't think of any good reason economically or otherwise to not run a coaster at least to the capacity it can handle without stacking. With ALL full-circuits, I can't think of why it wouldn't be 2+ trains.

What am I missing?

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"Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation." - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
http://www.loopscrew.com

Well in the case of SFMM, they usually run two trains on everything, unless they are performing yearly maintanance on the coaster. Rather than closed the ride completely, they'll run one train. Knott's takes the other road and will close the attraction completely. Two year round parks with two different ways of handling rehab issues.

One train operation is one of my major pet peeves, there's no excuse for it.

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People complain about clones, yet can't even come up with original conversation, which is ten times worse.

Knotts has 2 trains for monte, 2 for bommerang, about 6 or 7 for the mine ride, 3 for perilous plunge (on EXTREMELY short wait days they'll cycle 2 boats but load one), 3 for Jaguar, and 3 for ghostrider. On each, one is a backup train, rehabbed throughout the year so the rehab is as short as possible. On Xcelerator they only have 2 trains, so they run 1 when the other is in rehab on the tranfer track.

Knotts usually runs enough trains as dumb people allow. 3 towers on supreme scream recently, 2 trains on ghostrider even on fridays during the off season, 2 boats are always on perilous plunge because removing a boat requires a crane (although when there are less than a few dozen peeps in line they will cycle one empty), 2 trains are always on Jaguar just like Perilous Plunge, and the others don't get long waits.

Each year when I've been to SFGAm, they have ran pretty much at full capacity, including Shock Wave, which ran all three trains despite no one in line though it appeared they had a stacking issue on some coasters.

SFWoA, on the other hand, varies. While majority of you visit when most coasters run only one train (which doesn't really bother me), I had seen some of the coasters run close to full capacity on certain occassions, including two trains on Villain and X Flight and all three on Batman.

Though this may seem a little off topic, the thing that bugs me most about these new queuing programs is that people use them even when the line is maybe fifteen minutes maximum. Happened on a Sunday last September for Millennium Force. The park was pretty much dead with MF having a fifteen minute wait all day and people STILL used Freeway to get ahead of the line. If you can't wait a mere fifteen minutes, you have some serious issues.

X Factor

X Factor, I think people are "conditioned" at CP to get a Freeway for MF because generally lines for MF are the longest in the park by early afternoon. It's hard to tell at 10 am what the crowd will be like at 1 pm.

Personally, MF was the only coaster I ever got Freeway for. Being a "regular" I know that Raptor's lines will be shorter in the afternoons so a Freeway isn't needed. At the same time, I always avoided Mantis because lines there were consistently longer. I may ride Mantis more often now that Freeway will be offered.

I would guess I've been lucky. The other parks I've visited: MiA, PKI and SFGAm have all been running at full capacity when I've visited. My only complaint was Deja Vu. I waited in line outside the queue for 45 minutes for it to open at noon, and thought I was in great position for what I thought would be only a 15-20 minute wait when the queue opened. Fooled me. Trains were dispatched every 5-8 minutes and my wait was another 45 minutes. This was in mid-August, which I consider high season when a park is likely to be the most crowded.

Being older, my husband and I tend not to like to stand in lines that are more than an hour. Anything 30 minutes or less is fine.

And contrary to what you'd think, shorter lines means we get enough rides in that we are happier and more willing to spend money doing other things in the park. Longer lines means we'll simply leave.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
http://www.webtechnik.com/ebony/CPLady.htm

Maintenance, "wear and tear" and staffing are, again, issues guests don't care about. They're excuses. Anyone who drops $30, $40 and even $50 (in Orlando) to visit a park really isn't concerned about the park's financial position.

Living in a market with two big players, it's obvious why I choose to go to Cedar Point every Friday night in the fall. Because I know Raptor is probably running three trains and I can get several walk-ons that I can't get mid-summer.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

When I was at Knoebels last year it was 20 minutes before closing. The line for Twister was starting to get big, so the crew actually added another train 20 minutes before closing. How many parks do that? I know they were probably trying to get people through ASAP, but still.

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If at first don't succeed, find out if the loser gets anything.

If you have never worked at a park don't complain about stacking because you dont know what the ride ops go through. In my experience at SFGA, stacking happens everyday. Some days it is bad and some days it is not noticeable. The biggest influence is the unloading/loading procedure. If the guest in the park are slow that day then stacking will be a big issue. Trust me every crew is worried about capacity. We want to get people on the ride as fast as possible.

Knobels is one of the best parks for matching trains to demand. They change trains in just a few minutes either adding or removing trains to match the line. Remember that running two trains half full results in light trains that move slow.

Some other parks, if they change trains at all, spend half an hour or more doing it while you wait in line. I sat in the station of Phantom's revenge for 40 minutes last summer while they removed a train.

My experience last summer at SFA was that they were usually running 2 trains on all coasters, even Batwing with its technical problems. I understand that some others had poorer luck on Batwing. (Of course, Two Face and their kiddie coaster only have one train to run)
*** This post was edited by Jim Fisher 4/10/2003 11:37:53 AM ***

coastertigger sez: "We waited about 25 minutes to get on Chang at SFKK"

OMG! 25 minutes? That's horrible! What did you do to fill all that time so you weren't so bored?

Moosh - yeah, that was sarcasm

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"God bless Atheists!" - Homer Simpson

My gripe with SF (especially SFNE and SFGadv) is why they run trains at less than full capacity on busy days. Why not take a cue from Disney and have a single riders line or ask riders how many in their party to fill the trains. When I'm a single rider and I see trains leaving with 4 or 5 empty seats, it bothers me. Maybe this only happens at the SF parks I've been to but it happens EVERY time I go.

While I am a big fan of Knoebels, I have not been one of the fortunate ones that have seen 2 train operations in the face of long lines. Just the opposite. During two visits last year the line for Phoenix both times was down the ramp and past the "ticket taker" (sometimes even spilling out into the midway) and still they ran only 1 train. Same with Twister... line was down the ramps/steps onto the ground with only 1 train.

However, that being said... while at Knoebels (especially on Phoenix) I have seen one train operation that is MUCH quicker than the two train operations I have seen during my visits to SFA.

A 7 or 8 train wait during one train operation on Phoenix is quick compared to a 3 or 4 wait during two train operation on SFA's Roar.

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Kind of hard to take a post as objective if a park or coaster name is part of the "user name"

I've seen it too on Batwing several times last year.

The ride ops are supposed to count out 24 riders when allowing guests onto the loading platform,yet I've seen the trains go out with at least 2 empty rows,which amounts to at least 8 guests short of a full train even when there's a 2 hour + wait in line.