Anti-Rollback on TTD?

Actually if you think about it, wouldn't having advancing tires on top cause more rollbacks? Because in order for them to work, the tires would have to be pressing against the steel runners on the bottom, if the train was trying to travel over it, wouldn't it kind of act like brake?

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Shaun Rajewski
CoasterLine
Amusment Park Website Design - Coming Soon

Advancing Tires is a good Idea. If you have the advancing tires constantly running, at the top of the tower it would help push the train over. There is no sensor needed. All you need is tires that constantly move at the same speed all the time. This why if the train nears the top the advancing tires would pull it over.

I know some people say just let it roll back but lest face it. If it keeps on rolling back the way it does, it is going to close down and get removed. CP is spending too much time for this one ride that it will close and be melted down.

Carlo

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carlo18 said:

I know some people say just let it roll back but lest face it. If it keeps on rolling back the way it does, it is going to close down and get removed. CP is spending too much time for this one ride that it will close and be melted down.

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Ohhh man, thanks for the laugh. You were joking, right?

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Parker - http://www.sfmwzone.com/p_coastercount.htm>>My Coaster Count
www.SFMWZone.com

I can't imagine what would happen to a train load of guests if that train stopped dead on the high going up wearing only lapbars.

But, booster tires appears the way to go, but at what level do you install them?, and should they remain constant vs. use only when needed?

And which maintenence guy gets the task of changing them when needed?

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"Step on that lapbar and make it nice and tight!"

For those of you who say leave it as it is, there is no solution to this problem, shame shame shame. Isn't this the job of engineers, to troubleshoot and find solutions to major problems? And don't try to tell me this isn't a major problem. People, the roller coaster rolls back frequently. Rolls back! Do you really think they designed it that way? Think about. How many other coasters do that? Zero! It always creates considerable downtime, and with a high-profile park like CP who prides themselves on having the best capacity in the world, I would bet they have people working on a solution right now. Whether it be magnets, transport tires, a chain, or simply launching the train faster, there has to be something that can be done to make this ride more reliable.

For those of you who won't let go of my anti-rollback wording: the definition that I was implying was that an anti-rollback is something that keeps a ride from rolling back. Wouldn't magnets or spinning tires keep a ride from rolling back?
*** This post was edited by Bakeman 10/20/2003 7:09:09 PM ***

How many coasters roll back? I can think of two at the same park - PKD.

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-Mike Buscema

'No matter how skilled the designer is, every time we push the envelope we learn new things about coaster design.' --Dana Morgan
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Bakeman, while one engineering task is improving system reliability, the corollary to that is "In the most efficient way possible"

Sticking crap onto the tower isn't the way to fix TTD. If the misfires are caused by sensors misreading the speed, replace THEM. If the computer code is glitching, fix that. If there's just not enough power from the motor, then thats the place you should be directing your efforts. The tower isn't the problem, the problem is sometimes the train isn't moving fast enough before it gets to said tower.

Comatose:

I agree with you completely about efficiency, but it seems to me that the rollbacks are being caused by intangibles that really couldn't be accounted for in the design process, such as high winds, cold temperatures, and the weight of each train. It's no coincidence that a train finally makes it over only after they removed people from the last car. I don't think rollbacks are caused by bad sensors or lack of power from the motor because 25 million dollars were spent in building this ride. If those are the culprites, then that is a major design flaw, and you're right, that's where they should start. But that's not the reason why they took the huge tires off the back.

Here's a solution: Starting at the point where the train seemed to always reach, place transport tires several feet apart along the top of the track and stop at a point where the train would start to fall. Then go to the original design and find the calculated speed of the train at each of those points, and set the rotation of the tires to the same speed. That way, if the train is going its normal speed or faster, the tries won't even be noticed, but if it is traveling slower, the tries will grip it and pull it over. Just a thought.

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carlo18 said:
All you need is tires that constantly move at the same speed all the time.

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No, you need tires moving at the exact same speed as the train -- and the speed of the train is changing. Anything slower will act as a brake. Anything faster will make the last half of the ride as unpredictable as the first has been.

Bakeman said:

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For those of you who say leave it as it is, there is no solution to this problem, shame shame shame.

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There is no solution to this problem because there is no problem. The ride is designed to rollback if it doesn't crest the hill. There are systems in place to accomodate that. There doesn't need to be any additional systems that further complicate an already complicated ride.

Oh, hi, I build robots.

Did I mention yet that you can't just throw advancing tires anywhere to make it crest the hill? You can't. Bad things will happen.
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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
Hot stuff.

I was also wondering about doing the same thing. However, I think the biggest problem is the way they need to reset the ride to recover from a rollback.

<station2> <station1> <staging> <launch>

I don't understand why they need to clear the staging block, roll the train from the launch back to staging, then roll it forward to launch again.

If they could bring the train back quickly to the launch area, setup, return the carrier, and launch it again.... the downtime would be only a few minutes, and the relaunching is a simple solution to the problem.

MythMaker
*** This post was edited by MythMaker 10/20/2003 8:33:00 PM ***

Bakeman: How many other rollercoasters rollback like TTD? Are you forgetting that not only is TTD just the second rocket coaster, but it is twice the size as Xcelerater. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the engineers working for Intamin have thought about this countless hours more than all of us, and with their experience and knowledge they decided that the way it is was the best way to go. Rollbacks aren't nearly the huge problem you're making them out to be. If there is a problem, rollbacks are the result of that problem, not the source. Not only would it be expensive and inpractical to place your "LIM anti-rollback" or your advancing wheels 420 feet in the air, but you wouldn't be gaining much for all of your trouble. It's designed to clear the top by itself, and when it doesn't it's down because of the necessary tests that follow a rollback. If the train doesn't clear the top by itself, even with these systems the tests would still have to be done to make sure a problem doesn't get out of hand. I'm going to somehow have to side with Intamin and not you on the fact that it's fine the way it is.

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CP 2K3: 26
"What are you, a dentist? Or a hippie? Or some kind of hippie dentist?" -strong bad

You don't just "fix" a ride by adding advancing tires, or LIM's or anything of the such. That is not how TTD was designed. It would completely throw the ride experience and the ride point away. The ride needs not to be altered but, perfected. This is a world record breaking ride. "How many other rides do you see roll back?" How many rides at other parks do you see over 400' tall? 1, S:TE, and it rolls back every time. Let's face it, TTD was a "Prototype" of sorts, it needs some work. It has faced major downtime and it will see more. Think of the stress on the tower anything that would propel or hold the ride like tires or a chain, not just the additonal weight of the equipment itself.

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Is there life out there? Help us find out, http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu
*** This post was edited by ldiesman 10/20/2003 9:01:25 PM ***

How can you say there is no problem? Do you honestly think it was meant to be this way? Oh yeah, it will be the tallest, fastest, and most intense coaster in the world, but it will frequently rollback, causing major delays in an already long wait. It will be unreliable and will cause lines to be longer than expected. Oh yeah, 25 million please. YEAH RIGHT!

Advancing tires wouldn't work, even if constantly moving at the same rate of speed, because in order for them to work, there basically have to squeeze against the runner bar, in order to do that, it would slow down the coaster more, like a jam more than anything. If they weren't squeezing against the coaster, the tires wouldn't do anything.

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Shaun Rajewski
CoasterLine
Amusment Park Website Design - Coming Soon

Have you noticed the numerous signs telling you that TTD will roll-back? They didn't just throw those up after they saw it do it a couple of times, they were there from the get-go meaning one thing.....they knew rollbacks would occur, and they planned for it. I still can't believe you think you are more knowledgable on this subject than the people that designed the thing. You can't tell me that in the 3 years they spent designing this ride that the idea of roll backs totally slid by them and now they're saying "How'd we miss that."

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CP 2K3: 26
"What are you, a dentist? Or a hippie? Or some kind of hippie dentist?" -strong bad

Oh man, this thread is pretty funny.

Bakeman, I'm sorry, but this forum is intended for people with IQs larger than their shoe size.

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« adix@nedesigns.com »
Raging Bull is best when you're first - 6/16/03
Deja Vu Junkie since 10/19/03

Bakeman is funny.

Seriously... What are you, a dentist? Or a hippie? Or some kind of hippie dentist?

I garauntee you if you call up the point and ask them what they're doing to fix it, they'll tell you either that they're working on it, or the boys back in Switzerland at Intamin are working on it, and have been since trouble started. Call em up for yourself... I garauntee their answer won't be that they're putting some kickers over the top, or that they're satisfied with its current performance.

-BB
(mantis man... homstar is my idol)

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Bakeman said:
People, the roller coaster rolls back frequently. Rolls back! Do you really think they designed it that way?

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If the coaster wasn't supposed to do that, then it wouldn't have to have the braking system on the launch. Sure, the park would love for every train to make it over but there are a lot of varibles that play into what makes the train roll back. Having all those things meet at one point so one won't roll back is not going to work 100% of the time.

"Think about. How many other coasters do that? Zero!"

That's not true. I can name at least 5 other that I have seen rollbacks on.

Volcano
Millennium Force
Raptor
Gemini
Xcelerator
That's more than zero.

I was at the park on Sunday. While there were 4 testing rollbacks in the morning, I didn't see an entire "guest" rollback the entire day, and just clairify, I spent the entire day riding Dragster, nothing else.

I timed the testing rollbacks at less than 5 minutes from time of rollback to re-launch. Last weekend I timed a fully loaded train at around the same time. The park has gotten much better about re-launches to have as much downtime as possible and to put smiles on the faces of people like yourself that find this annoying.

-Sean (who gives credit where credit is due)

Any kind of "anti-rollback" device as you put it (which is already defined as a set of ratchet teeth with a dog on an incline designed to stop the train in the event of a rollback, but if you want to redefine it against a century of coastering, go ahead) is putting your proverbial finger in the proverbial dike (the thing that hold water back, you sickos). You're addressing the symptom, not the fundamental problem.

But, since TTD, a $25 million coaster, is getting taken out soon, why do we even bother talking about it?

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
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