An outside loop- Is it possible?????

Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:31 PM
Picture a regular vertical loop. Then, flip that upside down, but put the track on top. Would this work??? Would the train actually make it first down, and then up???

Like someone else said (sorry, can't remember whom) that the negative G's would be very high.

I would love to see this, and I just wanted to know if it could be done. It would be a very ODD feeling.

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May 5th, Gurnee, Illinois, "I'm sprinting for V2"
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:39 PM
That is actually my 'dream element' for a coaster, but it will never happen. First of all, you got the negative g's part right, its not the same as a normal loop. You would actually be pressed extremly hard against the harnesses (keep in mind that when you go upside-down on a coaster, the force and momentum is what holds you in, not the harness). Your blood would go right to your head and it would be unbearable. Also, think about the risks, the train could easily get stuck in that position. *** This post was edited by force312 on 4/10/2001. ***
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:43 PM
One way that would be cool would be to do a half inline twist right before a loop, so you'd flip upside down, then CLIMB the loop, go over, and when you're facing straight down again, do a twisting pullout, so the High-G portion of the exit is done right side up. THAT would be an awesome, intense, and I think perhaps survivable element.

Jman
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:50 PM
You got it Jman. That would be doable. In fact, it's been done, on the Arrow pipeline prototype if I'm not mistaken.

It's highly unlikely that we will ever see a true outside loop. It's rarely even done by stunt pilots. (I've gone to a big airshow almost every year for a long time, and I can only recall one or two outside loops being performed.) And they were probably wearing G suits. Hmmm, do G suits do anything got combat negative G's?
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- Peabody
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:53 PM
Of course it would work.....if you were on a 4th Dimention coaster.....and the cars flipped independently during the maneuver.

Do you think it would work on a flying coaster? I can't think why not....the G's are applied to your back, not stomach.
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"100,000 miles of track..."-Geddy Lee
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:55 PM
Peabody, you're the one that told me about that in that other post. Air show pilots are also doing these things at pretty extreme speeds.

However, a coaster would only be doing this at speeds like 50-60 mph. That could do something to help these. A specially designed lap bar and OTSR could hold you in comfortably.

It's just like doing a front flip, just a little more G's ;)

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May 5th, Gurnee, Illinois, "I'm sprinting for V2"
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:58 PM
It is extremely possible...on an inverted coaster ;). It would definitly be the G's that would be too intense, and that's what prevents this from hapening. I've too thought of this.

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I pledge defiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republicans, which I can't stand, one nation, under smog, indespicable, with liberty for just us, not all.
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:05 PM
I think the element would snap your neck.
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 4:10 PM

kcies13-SFGAm said:
"Picture a regular vertical loop. Then, flip that upside down, but put the track on top. Would this work??? Would the train actually make it first down, and then up???

Like someone else said (sorry, can't remember whom) that the negative G's would be very high.

I would love to see this, and I just wanted to know if it could be done. It would be a very ODD feeling.

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May 5th, Gurnee, Illinois, "I'm sprinting for V2""



I have actually considered this. I have even thought of an "outside corkscrew." I think that there is nothing stoping it exepct those people who can't take g'forces.
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What is life with out coasters, geniuses, and/or SFA
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:07 PM
Well, it could be done if all the passengers were wearing G-suits...

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Drachen Fire, Will it be swimming with the fishies?
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:26 PM
another problem would be the fact it might break peoples necks. One way they could do it is By making a large circle instead of the teardrop. The circle would have to be more like and oval but if spaced at the right point of the ride were there was not a whole lot of speed It could help lower the g's. But as for impossible , Nothing is impossible it is only impossible when people thinks it is. Remeber we once though 300 feet was out of our reach, a decade before magnum they thought 2 feet was impossible and soforth since the beging of the manufacture of rollercoasters. SO in that aspects don't say it is impossible.
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:41 PM

kcies13-SFGAm said:
"Peabody, you're the one that told me about that in that other post. Air show pilots are also doing these things at pretty extreme speeds. ""

You're absolutely right. Although they are doing HIGH speeds, outside loop is most likely proportional to their speed. Just like a small Arrow vertical loop, or a LARGE B&M loop at a higher speed.

I'm no authority by any means, but I know the human body can take much, much more in terms of positive Gs than negatives. Everyone's body is different. Doesn't blackout (without a G suit on) occur with a SUSTAINED G force of 5-6 and upward? (I've seen video of people in G suits crossing into double digits before passing out.)
On the opposite side, doesn't a red out occur with a sustained negative G force of around 2 and beyond? Also, if I'm not mistaken, a red out and negative Gs cause much more harm to the body than a blackout due to high Gs. (You brain being flooded with blood at high pressure rather than having a lack of blood.)

Is a true outside loop possible on a coaster? Realistically, probably not. I cannot think of a way to do it without applying many negative Gs.

Here's a question, does anyone know official numbers on negative Gs for a specific coaster? I'm not as interested in a split second negative G force, but a sustained negative G of maybe a half second or more. I have a suspicion it would be surprisingly low.
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- Peabody
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:09 PM

Peabody said:
"You got it Jman. That would be doable. In fact, it's been done, on the Arrow pipeline prototype if I'm not mistaken.

It's highly unlikely that we will ever see a true outside loop. It's rarely even done by stunt pilots. (I've gone to a big airshow almost every year for a long time, and I can only recall one or two outside loops being performed.) And they were probably wearing G suits. Hmmm, do G suits do anything got combat negative G's?
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- Peabody"



lol. I've never seen one either, and I live near Oshkosh WI, where the anual EAA airshow is. Many stunt airshows, and as long as I can remeber, not even in the news did they say one was attempted, and I sure havn't seen one. But the element on a coaster sounds fun, but might not feel fun.

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V2, Deja Vu... how can it be better? Add Viper! Oh, wait. It's already there!
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Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:26 PM
Peabody is right. The negative G's are much more dangerous than are the positive G's. Too many negative G's, and the force of the blood in your brain can cause a serious aneurism. That's why coaster designers have to be so careful when adding negative G elements and why it would be extremely difficult to design a safe outside loop.

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Mamba--One of the Tallest, Longest, Fastest Roller Coasters in the World

Adam Rentchler
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Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:10 AM
Wheres Rideman?
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Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:04 PM
I seem to recall that the normal limit for negative G's on amusement rides is 1.0. Actually, aerobatic pilots do a fair amount of negative G work, but they are will to accept the risks invloved, and the eyes that somtimes look like two cherries from the popped capilaries that result.
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Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:08 PM

Jim Fisher said:
"I seem to recall that the normal limit for negative G's on amusement rides is 1.0. Actually, aerobatic pilots do a fair amount of negative G work, but they are will to accept the risks invloved, and the eyes that somtimes look like two cherries from the popped capilaries that result."


I've heard that SROS@SFA pulls -1.5 G's.

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What is life with out coasters, geniuses, and/or SFA
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Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:36 PM
That would be sweet, on a flying coaster of course. Although it wouldn't really be an "outside loop" it could still work on a flying coaster or a 4th dimension. We can always so it in Ultra Coaster 3D!

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Coasters- a little slice of heaven
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Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:45 PM
Turbo drops, such as Power Tower at CP, pull -1.5.

-Raven_Rider

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"Hold on tight, with all your might, and enjoy your flight on the Raven!"
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Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:48 AM
In a word. No. Blackouts.

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Oooooh, my freekin' head.... Too many G's Too many G's! No, no, Too much Beer before the G's! Home Park: Knott's Berry Farm
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