A return of the OTSR's?

I'm 6'2" tall- not skinny but not overweight either... I tend to think of myself as fairly well-proportioned. That said, I have a little difficulty riding some rides because of my HEIGHT. No legroom in Premier launched coaster cars... OTSR's being too low to go over my shoulders on Intamin and Arrow rides... that sort of thing. I have never been denied a ride on a coaster because of my size, but there have been times when it was close. Another inch or so of height and I might be denied rides on a handful of coasters.

I realize that the average American male is 5'8" tall or something like that, but there are plenty of people that fall on either side of that number... especially "above" it. Considering that, it seems silly to me for rides to be designed without taking people of large height into consideration. When car shopping, I have held off on buying a number of cars because of a lack of front seat legroom. If I get uncomfortable with my knees bent for five minutes during a test drive, there is no way I'm going to consider that car when my average drive is 30 to 45 minutes. Anyone who is tall can understand what its like to wonder why car companies don't make seat tracks just a little longer to allow for some more leg room.

Its the same thing with coasters. I realize that there are safety concerns when it comes to riders that aren't the universally-accepted 5'8" tall, but if a coaster can be designed to launch a train full of riders down a straightaway at 120 MPH, you can't convince me that there is no way to design a restraint system that make sense for a greater range of rider sizes.

It's all your fault. You can choose to be shorter!

[/sarcasm]

Why can't I board kiddie rides? They look fun!

Jeff: The only option I see would be to cut off my ankles and walk around like Cotton Hill on King of the Hill!

Rob I'm in full agreeance with you. I'm 6'5 almost 6'6 and about 325lbs. No little person. I'm over weight, but don't look it and I am trying to do something about it. I have a lot of problems in the amound of room I have, size wise. At SFFT, I was denied a ride on Poltergiest and Superman because of my height (Poltergiest- my thighs were too high and they wouldn't let me put my legs through the lap bar and let them on top of the things that hold your feet to the floor. Superman- OTSR wouldn't come down over my shoulders enough and the seatbelt wasn't even a quarter inch to short.) When ever I ride a wooden coaster, I have to fold my legs so my legs clear the lap bar. In fact, I have to do that on every coaster I ride.

Ride manufacturers have to take a person's height into perspective when they design a restraint. We are going to Cedar Point this summer and I doubt that I can ride MF, TTD, Raptor, WT, Jr. Genimi, or Mantis on more of a I'm too tall, than I'm overwieght factor. That angrivates me severely. Hopefully when I lose weight, I can ride them, but it will probally take all sumer for me to lose my goal, which is 50 to 75lbs.

Can anyone tell me if OTSR's like the ones on ME and Zingo at SFMW are more comforting to taller riders? I would really like to know.

If it is so difficult to design a lap bar that can secure a wide variety of riders effectively, then why is it that the modern (1978) version of the Arrow Runaway Train seems to be so accommodating to a wide variety of riders, and has not had a single ejection incident?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I have to echo what RideMan said. Arrow's rides are accomodating to a large range to rides. Most wooden coasters are also accomodating to most riders. I am a large person with an eating addiction that I have been fighting my entire life. I have been able to ride every single Arrow ride and wooden coaster that I have tried (that includes Son of Beast) but I am unable to ride Intamin rides because of the restraint size. On top of the fact that I am unable to fit those restraints, Intamin has had more problems with ride ejections than any other company that I know of. In addition to that, I don't believe that all of the people ejected from these Intamin rides have been of the same proportions. Why is it that this particular company has had so much more trouble and their restraints seem to naturally accomodate less people.

My problem is that I would love to be able to ride MF and Dragster (among others) some day, but I'm afraid that even if the restraint suggests that I'm safe, I will not be. I don't currently feel that way riding Shivering Timbers, Magnum, or Son of Beast among others. And although I can't always ride B&M creations, when I am able to get on them I also feel safe. To me, this suggests that Intamin needs to look at the safety of their restraints for all people, not just the overweight.

^^^^^^^^^^^ Have you ever ridden an Arrow Minetrain? Those have to be the most restricting trains in reguards to height I have ever seen. I think the best solution is the Premier type bar. Very secure while still allowing inversions.

I'm wondering peabody, what your definition of MANY is. I can't recall a single incident where somebody has actually been ejected from a coaster with an otsr. Not saying it's never happened, just that I've never heard of it. Also, I recall you claiming any properly secured lap bar is safer than an otsr. Well, I think there is reason to believe that is false and that you have changed it to (Premier, etc.) Etc. basically means, nothing more I can think of.

Seriously though, unless somebody truly wants to escape from an otsr, they aren't going to. Lap bars, ummm, I don't think the last 4 people who have lost their lives and 1 who was seriously injured in the last couple years truly WANTED to be ejected. You may not be able to escape from a premier lap bar, but that doesn't mean there isn't a typically built person who can.

Rob:Cotton didn't lose his ankles at all....he had his shins blown off in WWII & his feet were sewn to his knees,any King of the hill fan would & should know that by now.

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RollrCoastrCrazy said:
^^^^^^^^^^^ Have you ever ridden an Arrow Minetrain? Those have to be the most restricting trains in reguards to height I have ever seen.

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6ft 2in. here and have had no problems with the Arrow Minetrains I have ridden. Infact, I didn't feel sardined in at all.

Rideman is following my train of thought (pun not necessarily intended :) ) I know the topic was focusing mainly on OTSR's, but actually I meant other types of restraints (such as the Arrow lap bars).

To reoiterate(sp), I'm not a fan of OTSR's in most cases. I don't mind the ones on beemers at all and that's mainly the one I had in mine when I started this topic up. I wouldn't complain one bit,to be honest with you, if say Intamin decided on it's next hyper/gigawhatever coaster to put that style of restraints. (think Raptor's restraints on a regular sit down train) I think it'd be comfy as heck and it wouldn't detract from the ride experience. (granted this is a hypothetical ride and all)

If the OTSR are the same as the ones on Storm Runner I wouldn't mind at all. With the hyper & giga coasters I enjoy the openess of train, and I am sure that this would detract from the ride experience.

Hopefully worst case scenario we end up with lap bars like on Premier rides.

A slight correction to somethinb that Super7 said:

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super7 said:
The premier belly-bars seem to be pretty secure. 1. They are a tight fit, so very large people that would not be secured will not fit.
2. The idea of this bar is that it goes against the abdomen, not the thighs. So as long as it is tight against the body, the rider is secure.

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That's not entirely true.

Premier's lap bar secures against the thighs just like any other good lap bar. The ankle bar is there to make sure that you keep your feet back, and the reason for that is to keep your knees bent so that your body is wrapped around the end of the seat. That way there is no straight-line path to come out of the seat: your egress is blocked by the back of the legs and by the top of the thighs.

The reason the Premier lap bar has that big pad on the end of it is to prevent you from leaning forward and getting bent over by the ride forces going through a vertical loop. That pad is to supply the upper body support that most lap bars lack, but which is a good idea for a looping coaster.

Have a look at this message from rec.roller-coaster to see what I am talking about (posted 12/24/1996, after Outer LIMits: Flight of Fear's first season of operation)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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BATWING FAN SFA said:
Rob:Cotton didn't lose his ankles at all....he had his shins blown off in WWII & his feet were sewn to his knees,any King of the hill fan would & should know that by now.

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I know that (even though I mistakingly said ankles instead of shins)... I was trying to keep things simply and put it in terms without having to get into a detailed explanation of the story behind that.

Well i just hope they don't do anything to the restraints on the one and only hypercoaster we have here in cali. It's not all the good in the first place, but atleast the train and restraints are nice and comfy. They seam to be very safe also since there is lots of sun baked roly polies in Cali :O)~ they seam to fit and ride it just fine.

sorry this is off topic but..........

Is it possible for the train to go faster then normal if the majority of the riders are way heavier then normal? Because i went to SFMM a couple of years ago and there was this weight watchers convention thing or something. I rode goliath with a train load of some pretty big folks and i swear it seams like that train was going to rip right off the track. The bunny hop seamed to had transformed into an intamin bunny hop and that death sprial lived up to its name that eveing. all i could see was fat ladies bent over in the seats ahead, as my vision got darker and darker i thought my head was to explode. I also thought we were going to over shoot the brakes we hit them so hard. Was this my imagination or can a very heavy train go way faster then intended too.

Back on topic ...........i don't think parks or going to start forcing designers to put OTSRs on everything. Thery're just not going to by anything Intamin with the old style T bars. I'm pretty sure intamin knows this and all the new coasters by them will sport the TTD style bars and seats. *** Edited 5/11/2004 1:45:14 PM UTC by CoasterXfreak***

For everyone on here that says that restraints need to be made to fit more people safer... you're dreaming. Obese people are larger in their entire circumference. Coaster chairs are meant to fit the "average" body person and if the chair was rounded out to fit much larger guests, the ride would not be comfortable nor secure for smaller guests.

Using the Arrow Minetrain / Wooden Coaster argument is goofy. Arrow Minetrains are not the sort of ride that would eject people by their design. Take one and stick it on a S:ROS track and I can guarantee that eventually someone would fly out. They are different rides completely, and treating them the same way is very shortsighted.

As for wooen coasters, there are many obese people who cannot get their rear end into the seat properly, and I have seen them have to exit rides before. If the person's midsection is large but rear end is small, they can fit into these restraints, but that isn't everyone.

For everyone out there saying that people can't stop obesity, I agree with you. At the same time, making harnesses that supports every body type would be insane, and since the majority of the target audience for a park like Six Flags is people that are not obese, it makes no sense for them to start designing rides that regular-sized people can't get on and I find it unbeilevable some of you think that it would.

I'm 6ft 4, most of my size is in my upper body, and I have a hard time fitting myself into Arrow and Vekoma trains. For some reasons, I had no problems with B&M yet. In the intamin case, I can't move my feet 1 bit, but I guess that is part of the "don't stick your feet out of the coaster" safety measure.

anyway - Short people have got so many advantages - there's really no need to envy tall guys.

It depends on your specific body habitus (proportions). When I was 260-275, I could still fit in B&M standups and inverts without much trouble and even IADs with buzzbars if I sucked in.

There weren't any Intamins nearby in '96. I wonder how that woulda worked out.

-'Playa

Sorry rob but as a major King of the hill fan I just couldn't resist. :)