A Possible Reason For A Drop In CP Attendance

Cedar Point has done a great deal for it's larger patrons. It put in more places to eat with larger, more fattening portions.
New, for 2006, virtually free cotton candy! Now you can eat 5x as much for the same amount of money!
SAVE SAVE SAVE
:)
(serious BS alert!)
Truthfully, people are just too frightened of going to CP and being on Maggie when she starts sinking again.
*** Edited 11/7/2005 10:41:22 PM UTC by FLYINGSCOOTER***

Do you think is has something to do with not adding a new coaster in the last few years? I like maxair, but I dont think it was enough to bring in a ton of people.

re: unemployment:

Sure, but this year, last year, and the year before are all pretty much the same (I looked at the '05 monthly data on that site). Yet somehow *this* year the economy tanked.

In fact, in 2005, the monthly figures for summer (seasonally adjusted) are BETTER than the summer of 04. Yet, again, it's THIS YEAR'S economy that is the problem?

Jun-04 7.0
Jul-04 7.1
Aug-04 7.1

Jun-05 6.8
Jul-05 7.0
Aug-05 6.7

Something doesn't add up.

And, folks saying "well, *I* did/didn't go because of <whatever>" is called anecdotal evidence. It doesn't mean bupkis. If you could show me DOT data that shows liesure trips of 1-2 hrs one way were down significantly last summer, then that would matter. Unfortunately, we won't get similar data for seatbelt sizes, but so it goes. *** Edited 11/8/2005 12:11:35 AM UTC by Brian Noble***

I don't know how much a new coaster will help. Look at Top Thrill Dumpster. If the build a new Intamin, the park will go bankrupt from the maintainance costs. (I hope CP learned their lesson about BIG new coasters!)

While I don't think you have to worry about another record breaking Intamin, I doubt the park would go "bankrupt" under the scenerio you put forth. *** Edited 11/8/2005 3:24:18 AM UTC by Peabody***

Like we said in the podcast, I think that unless CP drops under 3 million, who cares? They said they're still over 3.1, and that's not out of line with patterns from the last 10 to 20 years. They've made a pricing adjustment and ditched the lame agency they had. This is not gloom and doom.

Let us also not forget that the distribution is still paying out as always, and the revenue is still growing, even if not at a record pace.

Very true, Jeff.

Re: Re: Unemployment

I'll throw in the bupkis of gas price-related troubles for this season. I know that gas prices have affected the driving/vacationing habits of about 75% of the people I know. Now, I consider myself to be at least pseudo-normal, with quasi-normal acquantances and family, so I think an assumption about gas prices based on what I've heard (and what others around me have heard) to be slightly better than bupkis.

And, considering that a good number of families drive less-than-economical SUV's, a drop in family attendance could be a contributing factor.

Jeff is right though - even with attendance down, its not down beyond the normal range of variation that can find causes in a number of sources. See also: chaos. :)

I was not being serious. All I said was that CP should not gamble on a coaster that is a first of a kind coaster. Don't take what I say so radically!

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I think that unless CP drops under 3 million, who cares?

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Evidently, CP management.

In any event, I agree that this is not doom and gloom, and I wonder if this repricing plus WDW's new pricing structure is not a sign of the coming times---parks simply can't outpace inflation forever, because eventually they *will* price themselves out of any reasonable market.

And, if this goes hand-in-hand with a renewed focus on customer service---which really provides that sense of value for a day guest---then it's All Good.

*** Edited 11/8/2005 1:57:26 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

I think the general public is more consious of what it's spending it's money on.
About two months ago when i was shopping, i saw this interaction between a mom, pop and two kids that wanted a PS2 and a couple of games.
Dad said they couldn't afford it, what with their Cedar Point trip coming up. Mom came up with the option: you kids decide, a PS2 and a game or two or a one day jaunt to CP. She further explained that the PS2 will be at their house long after a trip to CP.
The kids went with the Ps2.
All things considered, the cost for either is close.

Dumb kids... the PS2 is sooooo yesterday...

;)

Still think it's a knee-jerk reaction (as mentioned in the podcast), I have a feeling this is a 'leveling out' of sorts.

While declining attendance isn't a good thing, there is going to be a point where attendance can't seriously grow any more. I think CP is dangerously close to that point.

Each year that a new 'marquee' ride goes in will result in a small attendance bump and then the next few years will see this leveling off.

All the highest attended regional/seasonal parks are in the 3 millions in attendance. This range seems to be the magic attendence number for these types of parks.

Look at it this way. CP will never do 4 million heads through the gate (again, podcast discussed), so somewhere before that they've reached a number that is just flat out as high as it will go. From there attendance can only drop.

I think they're getting dangerously close to that number.

Maybe not this year and perhaps all the money issues (economy and pricing and such) are a factor, but I think it's only part of the equation.

2006 will probably see a slight bump back up based on selling the lower gate price alone. 2007 and that nice plot of land (yet another podcast reference :) ) will be responsible for another bump that season. In 2008 and maybe even 2009 (who knows what the park has planned, for arguments sake I'm assuming nothing huge) will see the subsequent leveling off.

They're just not going to grow attendance much beyond what it is. When you've reached that maximum number you're just going to yo-yo around it from year to year. Dropping gate prices might be a perceived fix to a perceived problem, but I suspect there's more to it than that.

Exactly. There are times when there is simply no more potential business in a market. I have a feeling that everyone that lives between Toledo and Cleveland and wants to go to Cedar Point already does. There are years when numbers will rise and years when numbers will fall and I don't think they have a lot to do with anything in particular.

A lack of family rides, restrictive restraints and high prices will certainly hurt but I don't think that minor drops in attendance mean anything much. If the drop was, say, 10%, then I think there'd be a reason to panic.

Going back a few years...this attendance plateau is nothing new to Cedar Point. It was a big part of the reason they bought Dorney Park, it was a big part of the reason they built Soak City, and it's a major reason they are continuing to invest in the resort side of the business. I don't know how they figure their attendance...that is, if you buy a two-day ticket, does that count as one admission or two; and if you buy a season pass, does that count as one admission or thirty-five (or whatever). Learning how they count multiple-day visitors might provide some insight into the seriousness of the attendance variations...for instance, if the number of tickets sold drops by 20%, but 40% of the tickets are 2-day admissions, that might actually mean an improvement in revenue because of the longer time of stay.

Cedar Point has long understood the importance of time-of-stay, because the time-of-stay has a direct relationship to the almighty per-cap. Since the park already requires a solid full day to experience, they have concentrated on building reasons to make it two days. Or three. Or more. I do wonder at times, though, whether their attention to the resort (and thus to extending the length of stay for some people) has in some cases resulted in making things less desirable for their primary customer: the single-day visitor who is now cutting his day short to go get dinner down on US-250.

Now here is an interesting question for you: What do you suppose was the park's per-cap on cotton candy this year? I'll bet they beat it next year just in volume alone...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Based only on the handstamp rules, I would assume that each unique day's entry counts as one for attendance. So, a ride-n-slide counts for two for CP and two for SC (assuming both halves of both days are used) and a passholder counts for the # of days visited in each park.

I also assume this is accounted for in the per-cap number---single-park passes are easy; divide the # of entries by pass cost. Combo passes and ride-n-slides are harder, but presumably there is a percentage of ticket revenue assigned to each ride-n-slide entry. For example, if a RnS was $60, then each CP entry would be worth, say, $20, and each SC entry would be worth, say, $10 to that park's per-cap. Unused tickets probably also have some proportional rule assigned to them---I would think unused SC halves get apportioned to CP's per-cap, but wouldn't bet my life on it.

I imagine similar rules exist for accounting for Combo passes. Since pass barcodes are scanned, they may go so far as to apportion individual pass costs.

I finally got around to listening to Kinzel's NPR interview. His idea of "connecting to memories" really resonated with me---his belief is that food service's pursuit of high-margin items (burgers, etc.---stuff you can get anywhere) has taken away the unique feel of an amusement park. After hearing that interview, I'm feeling optimistic about the next season.

I jus want to say im a big guy 275lb and im 5'8 and i went to CP last year and could not ride some rides

i felt for the money i paid it was a waste ! This year I went to PKI and rode all the rides. I want to go to CP again but feel my money may be wasted if i cant ride the ride with the girlfreind and her kids. Also at PKI they have alot of OTS restraints and i feel thats why i could ride them and the ride ops even helped me on and off the rides with no problems. I told the vortec ride op i couldnt ride all the rides at CP but i could here, he said your kidding!! right!! jay *** Edited 11/9/2005 7:20:48 PM UTC by parr30***

This was said before, but you'd likely feel the same even if you paid $5 to get in. Instead of noticing all that you CAN ride for the money you paid to get in, people always focus on the negative. I'll go out on a limb and assume that the rides you couldn't ride were MF, TTD, WT, and Maxair..

That still leaves Raptor, Magnum, Bluestreak, CCMR, Meanstreak (some people like it :) ), Bluestreak, Gemini, Wildcat, and I know I'm forgetting others off the top of my head (not to mention some other flats, Power Tower, Ferris Wheel, Sky Ride, and good ol' CP&LE RailRoad). There's the snoopy show, and I forget if they still have the laser light show at night. Not to mention the atmosphere of simply being at an amusement park, and hanging with friends/family somewhere that you don't normally hang out. I'm sure there are other details I've missed since I haven't been able to get to the Point since late '03.

When you think about it, that's quite a lot. Most parks aren't too far behind in gate prices, but are considerably farther behind in rides/attractions selection (especially coasters). CP's gate is..what..$45? Dorney's is $37. Even assuming the rides you weren't able to ride, for only $8 more you got 50% more coasters, better shows, bigger park, nicer train, oh yeah and you actually get a skyride.

Oh, and P.S. if you went to PKD, you likely wouldn't be able to ride Volcano, Shockwave, Tombraider:Firefall, and possibly Flight of Fear (I have 2 friends with similar measurements you've described, and they don't fit on Volcano, Shockwave, Tombraider: Firefall, and one doesn't make FoF, the other just barely wedges in). Would your money be wasted there?

Sometimes people need to just take a page out of Polyanna's script and try to see things positively instead of going on a rant-fest of how they "wasted" their money because they couldn't ride a few rides.

It seems that a lot of people have stopped ranting about wasting money and not being able to go on certain rides. They also stopped going to CP, which gives us all the opportunity here to rant on why fewer people are going there.

Actually, dannerman, next year I'll be p&m-ing that I pay only 3 dollars less to get into Dorney than I would to Cedar Point, and look at how much less I'm getting. Half the coasters, fewer flats, fewer shows, PLUS they expect me to go up and down that hill! :)

Ya know what CP could add that would really *change things up* and get the ENTIRE family a cool new addition?

MiB... :)

Well, some sort of *dueling* Sally-brand dark ride, something that grandma and grandpa could do...the population *is* graying... ;)

Why *should* I quit when I'm so far ahead...

RGB, you forgot about PKD ;)