A Possible Reason For A Drop In CP Attendance

Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:04 AM
This is just an opinion that I have. Weight restrictions on MF and TTD hav always been a problem for CP. When people find out that they are too big, they become infuriated and threaten to never come back to the park. My question is, could this be a reason for a loss in attendance for CP.

I think it is because people think that if the lap bar comes down, they should ride. But what has CP done to try to accomodate these people?

On the other hand, I can understand the restriction on dragster. If the ride can barely make it over, then what would more weight do to it?

Luckily, I am able to fit on every ride, but I also realize how both sides of the spectrum feel. What's your opinion? Is this a problem that leads to the loss of attendance at CP?


X, also known as the death of Arrow Dynamics.
Intamin AG, slightly ahead of our modernized times.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:44 AM
I don't think that the percentage of people who cannot ride certain rides at Cedar Point could make that much of a difference for Cedar Point's annual attendence.

There are not that many people who have been turned away from Millennium Force this past two years to make much of a difference.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:48 AM
I don't think there was any reason for CP to change the seat belts in the first place. I don't think there ever was a threat that anyone would of fell out, because the ride ops at CP are more efficient than at SF, plus you don't get that ejector air on the hills like you do on the SFROS coasters and yes I do believe the attendance has suffored because of CP's new policy. I'm one of those people, but I will still come to CP because there is alot more than MF and TTD.
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Sunday, November 6, 2005 8:03 AM
Gemini's avatar The seatbelt issue is a problem that has not been satisfactorily addressed, but it isn't related to attendance issues. If you want to believe the company line or not, it really does come down to the regional economy. Not that there aren't other issues to be concerned with.

Walt Schmidt - Co-Publisher, PointBuzz

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 10:10 AM
Jeff's avatar Don't you think they have the research to know what the problem is? Dick Kinzel said for our podcast that the median income for guests had risen a bit, which means they were pricing too high for a significant portion of the middle class. Combine that with a crappy economy, especially in Detroit, and there you have it.

And let's not forget that anything over 3 million is still doing pretty well with the park's history.


Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 10:30 AM
It will be interesting to see how much the per-cap numbers go down chasing this market segment, and whether or not out-of-park revenues and/or increased attendance can make up for it. For a company that operates as conservatively as Cedar Fair does, this is nearly on par with the Cultural Revolution.

It will also be interesting to see what new cost savings (i.e. service cuts) they are going to come up with to maintain the park's profit margins in the face of decreased per-cap if they don't make up the revenue in attendance, because it will take a few years to bring prices back up if this strategy doesn't bring in the numbers they are hoping for.

I know we keep pointing to the econmoy, but the economy in southeast Michigan has been crappy since I moved here in 98. Except for a few pockets of biotech, this area didn't participate materially in the 90's boom, and state budgets have been tight for at least five of the past eight years. I just don't see how our regional economy is much worse this year than it was last year, or the year before, or the year before that.

On the other hand, I have wondered for some time how long parks could increase prices significantly faster than inflation and get away with it---discretionary income isn't growing as fast as admission, and that necessarily eats away at your potential market. Perhaps we've hit the wall, and we'll see other redutions, or at least other parks holding the line on admission. WDW effectively dropped admission for multi-day stays in January of 05, and for our typical Disney trip (seven nights) it's cheaper to enter the parks eight days than it used to be to enter for five.

In any event, we certainly seem to be living in interesting times for the industry.


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Sunday, November 6, 2005 10:49 AM
I know that the Junior and Senior tickets are a good deal. But, I see the logic in those. As for the daily price cut - my guess is that they will advertise this lower price and not offer as many coupons or discounts next year. I think it will be more a marketing point than anything else.

"Ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." - Bruce Campbell as Elvis Presley in Bubba Ho-Tep

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 1:47 PM
About economics and attendance, what they said...

About Dragster, I think that you are mistaken about how the ride works. Isn't the train weighed with riders on it and launched accordingly? I could be mistaken, but i don't think that a trainful of large riders would keep the train from cresting the tophat.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 1:50 PM
We have talked about this so much. The train is not weighed.

"Ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." - Bruce Campbell as Elvis Presley in Bubba Ho-Tep

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 2:18 PM
I believe the drop in enthusiasts is partially to blame for the drop in attendance, and thus this is a contributing factor. While I know we make up a minority of park visitors I believe we have the most sway on CPs (ie more enthusiasts fly there as opposed to any other park). Combine the weight issue (which is why Im not going to CP anytime soon) with the reviews of bad service that have sufaced recently and I think its hurting CP's bottom line, allthough fixing the gate prices is a far cheaper and effective way of getting more bodies through the gate then adressing our concerns.

2017 Trips: WDW, Dollywood, Cedar Point, KI, SDC, BGW, BGT, SWO, Universal Orlando

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:30 PM
Jeff's avatar Either I lost more weight than I thought this summer, or the belts on Millennium Force weren't as bad as people say. I didn't actually get to ride the thing until closing weekend, and it was not even a big deal.

Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:32 PM
Okay, DragonRider. My bad.

But would a trainful of larger riders keep the ride from going over the top? I have not been paying attention on the subject.

I went to CP in May this year and had pretty good service from all employees there. They all have their good days and bad days.

I think it is more about the famlies. I have complete faith that they will do something about the lack of new family attractions very soon. Kids up to the age of about 12 and non-thrillseeking adults who have been to CP in the past few years might not see a reason to go back until there is something new and exciting for them to do, perhaps. It's all been said before.

Maybe the new price for them will help out.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:22 PM
If you want to ride every ride...get off your ass and go exercise outside. I'm sure not that much will happen on CB if you leave your computer for say...20 min for a walk. Also you don't have to have that extra piece of cake at dinner. Seriously people, if you get turned away from a ride...it's your fault...your the one who does not exercise, rides are not made to hold 500 pound gorrilas, they are meant for humans of REGULAR weight.
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Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:25 PM
cofan101 - that's so true. Lmao.
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Sunday, November 6, 2005 5:51 PM
Jeff's avatar Actually, it's not true at all. There are many psychological and physiological reasons people are overweight. Don't try to over-simplify an issue you haven't had to deal with yourself.

Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 6:26 PM
matt.'s avatar Yes, I am sure all of the 500 pound gorillas reading this right now have been truly inspired by this thread.
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Sunday, November 6, 2005 6:41 PM
The train on Hypersonic XLC (as are the S&S Drop/Shot towers) is weighed dexter, maybe that's where you were getting confused.

Anyway, here's my opinion on the drop in attendance. The motto of Cedar Point has been "America's Roller Coast". Unfortunately, that sets up certain expectations for those of us who'd like to travel back to Cedar Point. Many of us had already ridden an impulse (the one down the street, so to speak, for example) so why go back for a slightly enhanced version? Then you had a monster roller coaster that didn't work very well and only lasted mere seconds. No thanks, we'll wait until next year when they get the bugs out. 2004 becomes the off year with other improvements and a still malfunctioning coaster. 2005 they add a Giant Frisbee and Six Flags builds a slightly bigger/faster version of TTD in New Jersey, which again takes away the incentive to travel to Ohio. I'm sure that MaxAir is exciting (I'm a huge flat ride person), but it's still not a coaster. So what are they building for 2006? A giant swing ride. Again, it has the potential to be exciting, but it's still not a coaster.

Before people bring up the defense that they're not competing with Great Adventure etc., then why would they be heavily advertising in Maryland and other states like they did last year? Maybe that campaign failed as I don't recall seeing any Cedar Point TV ads this year. But still, there are a lot of people who saw those ads and are now familiar with Cedar Point if they weren't before. So the bottom line for me and others is for Cedar Fair to give us a spectacular coaster for 2007 or we can add another year since 2000 that I won't be returning to Sandusky, Ohio. You better believe I'll be in Indiana next year though:) *** Edited 11/6/2005 11:43:09 PM UTC by Intamin Fan***

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 6:41 PM

jwhoogs said:
I don't think there was any reason for CP to change the seat belts in the first place. I don't think there ever was a threat that anyone would of fell out, because the ride ops at CP are more efficient than at SF


What does efficiency have to do with safety?

To think that attendance has dropped because of a seatbelt policy that affects few people or a lack of enthusiasts visiting is laughable.

-Nate

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 9:40 PM

cofan101 said:
If you want to ride every ride...get off your ass and go exercise outside. I'm sure not that much will happen on CB if you leave your computer for say...20 min for a walk. Also you don't have to have that extra piece of cake at dinner. Seriously people, if you get turned away from a ride...it's your fault...your the one who does not exercise, rides are not made to hold 500 pound gorrilas, they are meant for humans of REGULAR weight.

Wow, youre sooo intelligent. FYI I will never be able to fit on a Intamin horse collar (save Volcano where they have extenders, or at least did at one time) not due to my weight but my torso length. I am a big guy, 6' 3" and yes I am overweight, however from experience I will never fit on MF again because there is no way Im loosing that much girth at my mid section, and I saw people I would not consider overweight tossed off that thing. Did I tell you how much I despise Intamin, not just for their restraints but for their POS breakdown prone unsafe crap they have put out on the market over the past ten years?

I flaunt with B&M restraint length all the time and have sometimes been unable to ride, but that is something I can fix (and usually do); loosing two pants size with my bone structure and genetics is never going to happen, thus no MF for me ever again without a new train.

Face it America is getting bigger and fatter and soon enough the average american will not fit in Intamin rides. While I dont think this is the biggest cause to CP's problems, it is part of the problem. From experience enthusiasts, on average, tend to be more chunky then the average and seeing as CP has been hailed as heaven on earth and a destination park means we are a measurable part of CP's draw. When you combine that with the increase in complaints about service (read some of the TRs from this year) the park has had I say they are falling out of favor with us, thus contributing but not being the main part of their attendance problem.


2017 Trips: WDW, Dollywood, Cedar Point, KI, SDC, BGW, BGT, SWO, Universal Orlando

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 10:38 PM
Interesting that on one hand we talk about rides at parks not being able to accommodate larger riders, whether it's the park's, the mfr's, or the rider's fault...

Then in the same thread we worry whether by dropping the admission price, the park will be able to maintain per cap spending in park. And what is a big part of per cap spending? Cotton candy-- soda (or pop for some of you)-- anything dipped in batter, deep fried, and coated with salt.

You must spend more money, so eat and drink more, so you get even bigger, and fit on fewer and fewer rides, so you stop coming to the park, so we lower the admission even more, but when you come back you must spend more money, so... it's a vicious cycle.

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