A look at maverick's new trains.

Ride a few kiddie coasters that have absurdly long trains, then ride a couple of woodies like PNE's Coaster or Avalanche that have absurdly short trains...

Short trains are *one* of the reasons that those rides are as good as they are...

The set-up of the dual inline platform works well on TTD, and on SheiKra...and requires less staffing than, say, the side-by-side stations of X-Flight and Batwing. :)

Longer trains weigh more. It would take a lot more power to launch a train that was twice as long. That's probably the reason for short trains on launched coasters.

Long train vs short train will always be a tradeoff. It's more capacity and shorter load times versus less power and shorter cycle times. I think that we should stop worrying about the trains until one of us ride the damn thing and trust that the guys at Intamin and CP did their homework.

^ Thats exactly right.

However!
Six trains, constant line movement, and the mind believes the wait time is less. I think smaller trains will benefit the patience of the ridders. The larger trains do hold more people, but look how fast the trains will be loaded and departed. The lines will always be moving and there will be lots of trains to see flying around the track. Pretty cool if you ask me.

I wouldn't call this "worrying" about the trains... we're merely discussing the differences between long trains and short trains. It's a coaster discussion- isn't this the place to discuss such matters? ;)

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Hopman said:
Tell me about it. So much for the ADA rules making a public places acessable to EVERYBODY! i'm not huge (5'8", 220 lbs), but i'm big around the thighs & chest), so some coasters can be a tight sqeeze. Even so, coasters need to be built to 99% percent of the public can get on them & enjoy the ride.

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They do design them to try and afford the maximum number of riders can ride. That's one of the reason they went with the OTSRs instead of the lapbars.

You want to know one thing I've noticed? Comments from the people on this board who are better built seem to say that they fit better on B&M than on Intamin. Yet take a look at the height requirements: 48" Jimmy can get on your average Intamin but has 6" to go on the 54"-minimum B&M rides.

Basically, Intamin engineers their restraints to allow for younger & smaller riders where 48" is safe. B&M Engineers more for the adults and as a result larger people can fit in the restraints, but now it's not safe for someone under 54". It's a tradeoff.

And before you immediately say that they should all go 54" to accomodate the larger adults/enthusiasts, think of the families with budding enthusiasts that just turned 48" and are bawling their eyes out because they got turned away from Talon *AND* Hydra even though they got on Steel Force ("which is bigger") and Laser ("which goes upside down").

As for the length of the train? The shorter train ensures that every person gets a similar ride - the way it was intended. Go to Kennywood sometime and in the line for Phantom's Revenge they actually have a rather large sign that goes through the differences of where you sit vs. how the ride experience will change.

I get the idea. Thatks for enlighting me. Of course, there will ALWAYS be the best seat on the train: Front row baby! Unless you want big air on Magnum, then it's 1-3, the ejector seat!

Playa' hit the nail on the head. Weight has very little to do with it if one of the benefits of the shorter train is that there will be more of them, dispatched more frequently, as implied in several posts.

Shorter trains greatly increase what and more importantly how quickly designers can maneuver trains through elements of the course without negatively impacting the ride experience. This is because there is significantly less difference in dynamics (positive/lateral/rotational Gs) between the front, back, and the middle seats (where roller coasters are generally designed around) on a short, say 3 car train, than there would be on a longer, say 8 or 9 car train. Look at how rapidly rides like Kanonen (4 cars) or Speed Monster (3 cars) rotate at various points (e.g. Stengel's cork hills) compared to how longer trained rides like Expedition GeForce or Goliath behave at similar points.

For a fun demonstration of this in action, ride a B&M in either the front or back row on one of the outside seats and don't hold on at all. Next, ride the same ride in one of the inside seats in the direct center of the train, and again, don't hold on. You'll be tossed around a good deal in the front or back outside seats, but if you sit in the middle, I'd wager a bet that your head will never touch the headrest. Your ride might be a little less exciting, but it'll be almost exactly how the ride was designed to feel.

Weight becomes a factor when you're launching it. Tossing a five pound ball into the air is a lot easier than tossing a ten pound ball.

Are there any physics professors in the house who can give us all the nitty-gritty on the eqations?

I disagree.

I think the best airtime seat on magnum is the middle seat in the last car. Of course thats just my oppinion:).

As far as moving people through maverick's q, it will all depend on how fast the crew can load/unload guests into the trains. To me and you, the restraints only take us seconds to secure, but to an average park guest it will take a little longer. I think that the fact the park has no other ride with this type of otsr's, may couse some confusion to some people as to how it works.

Thus the longer dispatch times.

I worked on mean streak a few years back, and you would be suprised as to how many people coulden't even figure out how to buckle a simple seat belt.

Crazy Horse, I do belive you are mistaken. Screw, WT, Raptor and Man-Hater all have OTSR's. Not EXCATLY the same, but similar.

Crazy horse, I would argue that the best seat is the front row of the back car, as I seem to get crazy air there (not to mention its in the same spot as the "offical" ejector air seat from the midline) and for my tall legs extra room so the knees dont meet molded plastic :).

Man-hater?

Lol, I love that term for mantis.

What I ment, was that the otsr's on other coasters in the park are horse collar shaped like this http://rcdb.com/ig1571.htm?picture=10

And maverick's are L shaped like this http://maverick.cedarpoint.com/latest/gallery/

Not a huge differance, but a differance none the less.

Its just going to be differant to a lot of people, and I do think that it will affect the numbers in one way or another.

The restraints are just as easy to pull down as any other OTSR. The belt clip (although it's between the legs) is the same design as Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force. The suplimentary restraint I don't like are the clips they have on Skyhawk. I always see people struggling with those.

Here's a good picture of the belt.

http://www.rollercoasterfreak.com/Cedar_Point/2007-02-23_Maverick_Tour/Image_IMGP1208.JPG

*** Edited 2/26/2007 11:13:59 PM UTC by Jason Hammond***

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Rob Ascough said:I wouldn't call this "worrying" about the trains... we're merely discussing the differences between long trains and short trains. It's a coaster discussion- isn't this the place to discuss such matters?

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Only in those threads where *I* say it's OK. But not here... ;)

Those clips aren't supposed to be easy to undo.. that's the whole point of a restraint system... even if only a secondary one. :)

I hope you meant that in jest. If not....

The point of a restraint system in a vehicle is to keep you from getting hurt. The point of devices that are hard to open is to keep you from getting into things you not suposed to (child safety caps) or keep you from hurting others (straight jacket). And while I realize some of us here (including myself) sometimes seem insane, I would be less likely to become severly annoyed if my buckle was easy to put on and take off. :)
*** Edited 2/27/2007 2:50:49 AM UTC by Jason Hammond***

Just hope the belts are long enough and they don't have a "slack" rule. ;)

From the looks of this picture...

http://www.pointbuzz.com/Gallery.aspx?i=6339

It looks as if there will not be a "lot" of play in the belt. If you have a beer gut, or are tall, you may have problems getting it buckled.