A Few Hours At SF Great Adventure on a Beautiful Spring Saturday 5/4

A great example of doing this the right way is the way Cedar Point ropes off lanes on Magnum and TTD. Early in the morning they will rope off entire rows to prevent people from queueing there. If Great Adventure has an issue with valleying and wants people to load up front early in the day then I suggest they consider a similar approach.

I don't disagree with either of those posts.

My guess is that the queue for El Toro fills pretty quickly - and based on the TR, that seems true. Probably more work to rope and unrope than just ask people to slide towards the front for the few minutes until full trains are possible. Either that or wait for full trains to dispatch.

But the flip side is that they didn't. They tried to offer service and start running trains immediately (not waiting for full trains) and efficiently (minus the confusion of adding/dropping ropes in a short period of time)...which resulted in a negative experience for Mike.

And it starts to make sense that some parks stagger openings. Perhaps they're waiting for big enough crowds that they don't have to deal with any of this and can just open and start running a ride at full capacity and normal operation...but then we all complain about that too.

You can't please everyone...but you're expected to.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It should be the slogan of the hospitality/service industry.

But none of this changes the simple fact:

They're trying to run a park. You're hindering that. It's a crappy move to make.

And what makes it crappier is that we are enthusiasts. We know better. We understand how this works. Yet somehow we're the first to pile on with complaints and demands.

It's all so backwards to me...and exactly why I try to keep this whole thing at arm's length.

kpjb said:

Ride in the front until there are a couple more people in the station and the trains are filled, go ride something else and come back, buy a churro, whatever... I just don't see the need for the argument.

Right, exactly, so........... what's the problem with him waiting a few rounds until there are more people so he can sit where he wants? What's the harm in letting him waste his time standing there? Whether he's spending that time buying a churro or just standing in the queue, who the hell cares? Are we seriously arguing that patrons aren't allowed to wait for the next train?*

The conversation could've also gone like this:

Op: "Sir could you please ride up front?"

M: "Well, I prefer to ride back here."

Op: "With so few people we need everyone to be up front. Otherwise you'll have to wait until more people show up to fill the train."

M: "Oh OK, I'll wait then."

Problem?

*Edit: Yes I'm straw manning a bit here, because I know full well the argument isn't about waiting for the next train, but rather ""arguing"" (scare quotes) with a ride operator. My point is that the ride op could've just let him wait instead of insisting he go up front.

birdhombre said:

Problem?

This:

Mike Gallagher said:

"Sir, could you please move to the front of the train?'

"No, I prefer the back."

"Well, we'd really rather you rode in the front car of the train"

"Well, I'd really rather ride in the back, if it's all the same to you"

We volleyed back and forth for a few moments...

It doesn't appear that Mike said his issue was that he wanted to ride in the back and was willing to wait until well after they went back and forth for a little bit. He argued. (err...discussed)

Perhaps the op was less-than-great in handling the situation because he didn't quite understand what the hell was going on? The fact that he looked at the rest of the crew, shrugged and sent the train says to me they were like, "WTF? Whatever, just get him out of here."

It seems like we're all working under the assumption that people sit all alone in the back of coaster trains and argue with ride ops all the time. Hell, if I had been there as a guest I'd have even been like, "What was up with that guy. That was odd."

And just because you want to ride the back doesn't mean by any stretch that they have to accomodate that. They could have just as easily (and rightfully) said, "Sir. You're either going to have to ride up here or leave the station and come back later."

I still surprised so many people see this as anything but being weirdly stubborn.

Well, now we can get into a philosophical discussion about the difference between stubbornness and dickishness (a la "luck" in the gambling addiction thread). ;)

^The difference to me is that I find that other thread more interesting... ;~P

Now who's being a jerk? ;~)

If I call it "oddly stubborn" can I get more people to see the point?

I'm also going to follow up with saying that being oddly stubborn is a dick thing to do in this situation. :)

Dammit! Well played.

Wait, but first you said weirdly stubborn, not oddly. To me, weird is different from odd becau--- oh crap.

Lord Gonchar said:
If I call it "oddly stubborn" can I get more people to see the point?

To be honest I find it "oddly stubborn" that you can't let it go. A true "enthusiass" would have stormed off to guest services and demanded that the situation be taken care of. He said he would rather sit in the back of the train and they let him. Meh.

With my "luck" I would move to the front of the train like the good little sheep that I am and then the local cheerleading camp would roll right up the ramp in their fluorescent pink shirts and fill in the rest of the train to include the back row that I just vacated. They would probably pretend to struggle with their buckles, too, and ask the op if the coaster is scary and if they will die riding. But that's just my "luck", I guess. ;-)

I still really don't see the issue. I don't see what was described as being an argument. Negotiation maybe, but not an argument. That's the big disconnect if you ask me. That and the idea that such a discussion is inappropriate for the first train of the day in an empty station.

It's not like dispatching was a concern and trains stacked because of this. I get that scenario. I really do. That wasn't this.

eightdotthree said:

To be honest I find it "oddly stubborn" that you can't let it go.

Which is great, because I actually typed a quip about it being stubborn in 'Gonch-like proportions" but erased it and changed it.

Lord Gonchar said:

Mike Gallagher said:

So I was on the platform at El Toro by 10:35, waiting for the first train of the day in the lane for my customarily hoped-for back seat. The only people in the station were a fellow waiting for the front, and what appeared to be a maintenance guy in the second row. The ride ops were gathered around the control area. Next thing, one of them is walking toward the back of the platform. I figure they're about to open the ride. I say Good Morning as he's about to walk past me, but he stops.

"Sir, could you please move to the front of the train?'

"No, I prefer the back."

"Well, we'd really rather you rode in the front car of the train"

"Well, I'd really rather ride in the back, if it's all the same to you"

We volleyed back and forth for a few moments, with me saying "I'm happy to wait until you have more people for weight on the train, but I'm not moving up." After a bit he gave up, turned to his crew-mates and shrugged, and walked back up front. the train ended up dispatching with 4 people, including me.

What am I missing here? This seems like a total dick move. Why were you being a jerk?

That's probably why I haven't been to SFGA with Mike; he's stubborn and dare I say inflexible? Was planning to meet him there but couldn't give an exact arrival time so wanted to be able to contact him after arriving at the park. Well, he can't hear his cell phone and I appreciate that so said I'd text him and he said that he doesn't know how to receive a text. It was clear that he had no interest in learning how to open a text message or send one either. So with him I guess you sit in the back row of El Toro or not at all and call him on his landline, making certain not to call when Jeopardy is on - blimey, that would be inexcusable. You do things his way or no way. (I too prefer the back row of El Toro but wouldn't make a fuss if the ride ops asked me to move. The only place I would refuse to sit is in the 3rd row because it felt rickety to me.)

Anyway, I think that this is one of the most amusing discussions I've ever seen on this site. I mean it's a riot! I myself was at SFGA the day after Mike was and experienced no similar problems. It was easy to get 4 quick rides on Nitro upon entering the park and because there were people who wanted to sit in the back, middle and front there was no delay in dispatching the train. Maybe if Mike did Nitro first and El Toro later he wouldn't have encountered resistance. I believe that there are more people on El Toro later in the day than earlier, possibly because a number of people do what I do: i.e., hit Nitro first because it's fairly close to the park's entrance and work their way down to El Toro later. (I do this not only because it makes sense but because I'm too lazy to walk from El Toro back to Nitro unless I'm on my way out of the park.)

I'm sure some fellow Coaster Buzzers are going to come down on me hard for using this forum to air a private grievance but I have nowhere else to air it, so it is what it is.

*backing away slowing from the keyboard...*

RUN!

Uhhhh.... *blink blink*

Um...wow.

Bobbie1951 said:

...A lot of uncomfortable things you can read a few posts above this one...

(Abbreviated by Carrie J. for space)

You got a lot of things to say about somebody you've never even spoken to, much less met. "Stubborn" is also refusing to go to a park because a child would be part of the party, a fact I told you of in an e-mail more than three days before we were supposed to meet up.

Um, did you really need to quote all of that, Mike? I'm pretty sure her post is the only one anyone will remember from this thread now anyway. ;-)

Sorry, Carrie..and everyone else. Shouldn't have quoted at all. I wouldn't want people to see that tripe more than once.

No worries... fixed that for you. :-)

I just heard the proverbial epic turntable needle scratch across the 33rpm LP, reducing this crowded, noisy room to a dead quiet.

Am I the only one who's suddenly more uncomfortable than when Dan Koch showed up?