2009 Golden Tickets

Jason Hammond said:
Lets say I never rode Ravine Flyer II last year and the only new coaster I rode was one of the Dark Knights at one of the Six Flags. Does that mean I should only vote for Dark Knight as best new coaster?

No. But it means you're only qualified to voice an opinion on Dark Knight in the context of best new coaster and it certainly means your opinion on Ravine Flyer II is entirely invalid.

Do I need to eat a handful of mud to know I won't like it? No. Do I need to eat a new flavor of Ice Cream to know I'll like it? Maybe. But, If Joe said it tastes just like Moose Tracks, then I know I'm going to love it. Because, Joe and I both love Moosetracks.

But now would I ask you how good that ice cream is? No, you've never tasted it. There'd be no reason for me to ask you how good it is because you have no idea. So why does it make sense for that same opinion to count when voting for a roller coaster?

Basically Joe said it was good so you say it is too and then I say it is because you said it is...but you only said it is because Joe said it was.

See how quickly that gets ugly?

Is the poll perfect? No. But, what poll is.

None. They're all kinda stupid. Some are just even more stupid than others...especially ones that says if you're not qualified to form or voice an opinion that you should just borrow someone else's.

Is there a way to make a poll that everyone will agree with when the results are tabulated? No. Does that mean we should never take a poll on anything? Of course not.

It's not a matter of disagreeing. I find it hard to disagree with something that means so little to me. I don't disagree with the results. I don't care.

It's a matter of understanding what you're looking at.

Just take it at what it's worth.

I think we have been. :)

rollergator said:
Thanks Jason. Been trying to attribute that 51-49 statement, and have been unable to ID the source. So, credibility comes into question.

As far as the ballots themselves, if they keep coming, then I'll keep sending them in....I'm a conditioned voter (and probably know more about coasters than politics...not that I'm uninformed about either, LOL).

You did read that Gator, on the 2008 ballot. This is what was printed on the ballot for the best new ride/attraction in 2008:

"This year for the first time ever, members of the Amusement Today staff are voting on these two categories along with you. The AT vote will count towards 50 percent of the total vote with the survey participants accounting for the remaining 50 percent. Should a tie occur, AT would then choose the winner."

The publisher had been toying with the idea of allowing the staff to have an opinion, and unfortunately that statement got printed at the top of the ballot on the last page. It was only going to be for best new attraction in a theme park and waterpark. However after it was discussed with the rest of the staff members and others in the industry they decided not to do it that way, and they used only the survey votes.

People on forums always talk a lot about the polls when they come out, but do they really even matter to the general public? I never see any advertising, that uses the poll, for any park or ride that's on the top ten in any category. I never hear anyone talk about the polls outside of the internet either.

Just pick up a brochure. Cedar Point, Schlitterbahn, Knoebels, SFNE, Fiesta Texas, Holiday World and several other winners all have the Golden Ticket displayed on their brochure. Some have it on their website too:

http://www.knoebels.com/food.asp
http://www.waldameer.com/

http://www.sixflags.com/newEngland/rides/bizarro.aspx

http://www.holidayworld.com/rides/voyage

I have to go with Gonch on this. If you've never ridden a ride, you have no direct experiential context to voice an opinion. Which reflects the glaring defects of a popularity contest like the Golden Tickets more than anything else. (Not that Mitch's is a model of perfection either.)

I never bring it up to my non-enthusiast friends. But, I get friends all the time saying they heard it on the news, in a commercial or whatever and asking me if I knew about it.

At the very least Cedar Point displays it on banners throughout the park. Here is one I have from the 2005 season.

Well I guess I just don't look hard enough or just don't pay enough attention.

Who says you have to ride something to appreciate it? Perhaps my definition of the "Best New Ride" has nothing to do with parking my butt in the seat, and everything to do with my impression of the impact of the ride in comparison to the park, and the industry as a whole.

Cedar Fair put out a press release, which was picked up by a lot of business websites, and included as "news" about the stock. It keeps the company name in the news and should send a message to unitholders and other people following the stock that something good is happening. Of course, the day the release came out, the stock went down by nearly 4 percent, so I guess the intended message didn't get through.

Or the market in general took a dump that day and investors do not base their decisions on silly polls conducted with enthusiasts. That's my assessment.

Jeffrey Seifert said:
You did read that Gator, on the 2008 ballot. This is what was printed on the ballot for the best new ride/attraction in 2008:

"This year for the first time ever, members of the Amusement Today staff are voting on these two categories along with you. The AT vote will count towards 50 percent of the total vote with the survey participants accounting for the remaining 50 percent. Should a tie occur, AT would then choose the winner."

Thanks Jeff! I was pretty sure I hadn't *completely* lost my mind (mostly, sure, I'll accept that). Also explains where I got the 51-49 split, since tie-breaking votes are kinda like the VP and the Senate...continuing with the political metaphors.

However after it was discussed with the rest of the staff members and others in the industry they decided not to do it that way, and they used only the survey votes.

Good news! Very thankful to hear that...makes me even more likely to keep submitting my ballot.

Now, on to the last point, where Gonch and Jason are disagreeing, amicably, in terms of "other people's viewpoints". I have to admit leaving categories blank on my ballots, and friends I've talked with do the same when they feel "less than qualified" to give an educatedopinion. And in the end, isn't *educated* what you're shooting for when you select people with long track records? I have to admit, I feel like that methodology yields a better estimate, statistically-speaking, with which to judge. I'm not saying it completely invalidates the poll when you use "everyone else says Voyage is the best" to mark your ballot even if you haven't ridden it....but mostly, it makes people question the validity of your opinion.

BDesvignes said:
People on forums always talk a lot about the polls when they come out, but do they really even matter to the general public? I never see any advertising, that uses the poll, for any park or ride that's on the top ten in any category. I never hear anyone talk about the polls outside of the internet either.

Good point! With the exception of the few people that see the bi-annual silly coaster shows on Travel, Discovery, etc. (while cool shows, they are consistently loaded with errors, etc., and who comes up with their top rated rides?)

For more than we know, thousands of folks think Six Flags Great America is the "cleanest theme park in the world!" I love my home park SFGAm (and I think it is leaps and bounds over the other SF parks in every category) but that whole "cleanest in the world" is shoved down your throat while at the park - it's even written on the plastic thing in the urinals! It very may well be the cleanest park in the chain (however most of the SF parks do seem very clean these days.)

Jeff said:
Or the market in general took a dump that day and investors do not base their decisions on silly polls conducted with enthusiasts. That's my assessment.

Not to the tune of 3-4% off it didn't. Secondly, I don't think any press release issued by Cedar Fair would refer to a "silly poll conducted with enthusiasts," rather they mentioned they were named the Best Amusement Park for the 12th year in a row and all these coasters were ranked here and there. I doubt any investors or brokerage firms would go searching the internet to do much research on the AT poll.

Maybe nobody decided to buy units based on that press release, but it puts the company name out there in a sea of thousands of businesses vying for attention. It comes down to the fact that there's a game being played, and CF and other parks are taking whatever advantage they can get from it.

If you think the press release was a waste. tell Cedar Fair about it. Don't use time refuting everything I post here.

*SIGH* Another year and still no mention of M:TR. I would think there would at least be an honorable mention! LOL

The only "cleanliness" issue that drives me crazy at almost every park is the park-goers fault. Gum. Very few if any parks sell gum. But it is everywhere in the park. O the concrete, on top of roofs, stuck to supports. It's nasty. You can get it off the buildings and such, albeit a hard job. But, once the sun bakes it into the concrete, it's almost as hard as the concrete itself. My family has a personalized stone in front of Progressive field in honor of my Great-Grandfather. It has gum on it. And, try as we might, we can't get it off. I think if we find something to get it off, it'll ruin the stone tile in some other way.

I know of no way to solve this problem. Other than training drug sniffing dogs to seek these people and take them down. Although that might be entertaining, it would probably be frowned on my most people. ;)

It's also a park-goers fault for littering as well. Same thing as spitting gum out onto something.

Yes. And in no way to I condone littering. How hard is it to find a trash can. Especially in a Cedar Fair park. ;) But, at least a piece of paper a few french fries or a spilled soda can be swept up or hosed down. Gum is in a league of it's own. Last year I got on a coaster and stuck my knee right into gum inside the coaster. It ruined my pants.

RatherGoodBear said:
Not to the tune of 3-4% off it didn't.

Cedar Fair's trading volume is far too low to draw any conclusions over one or two days. You can see over the last six months that it more or less has matched what the major indices have done. If you go further out, say a year, you can see it started to underperform the market at large around the end of last year.

Secondly, I don't think any press release issued by Cedar Fair would refer to a "silly poll conducted with enthusiasts," rather they mentioned they were named the Best Amusement Park for the 12th year in a row and all these coasters were ranked here and there. I doubt any investors or brokerage firms would go searching the internet to do much research on the AT poll.

You're right, they wouldn't react at all because winning a poll is not indicative of the financial health of the company.

Don't use time refuting everything I post here.

Seriously? Don't flatter yourself. You keep going ad hominem and trying to dictate the direction of the discussion. It is not your place to do so.

phoenixphan :-) said: *SIGH* Another year and still no mention of M:TR. I would think there would at least be an honorable mention! LOL

Most likely due to the lack of ridership ;)

Pardon my ignorance. But, M:TR?