2006 Additions: SFMW, SFNE, SFOT, SFFT, SFMM
DannyP said: "SFFT seems like a high quality park, but I don't really know much about it or what would give them more advantage over SeaWorld."
Look over the menu from SFAW, they've got *at least four* rides that could/would help....the 3 obvious coasters selections.....and I'd LOVE to ride SWAT up against those quarry walls! :-P
edit: I guess the SLC makes five.....although I hate to think of an SLC as *helping* a park, LOL...Magic Springs did really well with theirs, though...
SFFT is really nice and has a very good selection of rides...themed and landscaped beautifully. But a GOOD woodie would be something new for them, and NOBODY could complain about getting an Anton....they *only* come secondhand these days.
*** Edited 10/21/2005 5:18:59 AM UTC by rollergator***
In that same period we've seen CF add the following:WT & TTD at CP.
Steel venom at Vallyfair.
Spinning dragons & now patriot at WOF.
Hydra at dorney park.
Silver bullet & xcelerator at KBF.
Paramount has added the following coasters to their parks since 02.
Ricochet at both PKD & PCAR.
Borg assimilator at PCAR(was Stealth at PGA).
IJ:ST at PKI & PCW.
TR:TR at PCW.
IS:SC coming to PKD in 06.
So among the 3 major chains you see a more even distribution of coasters among the parks,something SF doesn't seem to believe in under their current management....anyone ever wonder why these parks are doing a bit better attendance wise than the other SF parks? it's because they're actually getting the coasters that any park needs on a regular basis to help grow,or maintain attendance levels that's why. & it's something I've been saying for years now.
SFAW: 1
SFDL: 2
SFEG: 3
SFFT: 3
SFGAdv: 8
SFGAm: 6
SFKK: 3
SFMM: 7
SFMW: 8
SFM: 3
SFNE: 5
SFOG: 5
SFStL: 2
SFoT: 4
SFA: 6What do we see? Six Flags America has received as many new coasters as SFGAm, and only three Six Flags parks have received more new coasters than SFA since 1998.
Here's something else you fail to understand: amusement parks aren't charity. It's not a fairness game. "Even distribution" of rides just doesn't work because it's a ridiculous business idea. Why would you add the same number of coasters to hugely popular park as you would to a tiny park? Not all parks have the same growth potential.
And as for your little example of "other chains," you fail to note that neither Michigan's Adventure nor Paramount's Great America has received a new coaster since 2002 (and, in fact, PGA has lost two coasters). So much for other chains being "fair."
SFNE-2,B:TDK in 02(was supposed to go to SFA that year)
Says who?
-Nate
Also, it IS kinda important to note that coasters aren't the ONLY new rides parks get...and that SOME parks are more in need of infrastructure improvements than new rides....
How about that new bathroom by Batwing? Any takers? Thought so... ;)
For Cedar Fair, you say that they're more fair in their distribution. Well, look at the financials - the parks are also "fair" in how much money they bring in to the company coffers. Even income = Even distribution. For six flags, the income is NOT even, so the distribution should not be even.. not trying to bash the smaller parks, because they're not necessarily bad - just smaller.
i am not familiar w/ the other parks, but I do know SFDL's attendance has been slipping year after year, and this year they were practically non-existant (except concert days)
-- alan j
coasterdude318 said:
You know, anyone can warp numbers to their advantage. To prove that, let's instead look at the number of coasters added to Six Flags parks since 1998.SFAW: 1
Yeah, Astroworld started to get the shaft as soon as Premier took over from Time Warner. Hence all the complaining: we were doing good till Gary Story decided to dick us over. Sure TW was mostly sending used rides our way, but they were at least not ignoring the property by denying even the funds for maintenance and paint (1999-2002). I don't believe the intention to sell the land was there until more recently though, no earlier than 2004, because the light rail line and Reliant stadium and all that are pretty new themselves.
coasterdude318 said:
You know, anyone can warp numbers to their advantage. To prove that, let's instead look at the number of coasters added to Six Flags parks since 1998.SFAW: 1
SFDL: 2
SFEG: 3
SFFT: 3
SFGAdv: 8
SFGAm: 6
SFKK: 3
SFMM: 7
SFMW: 8
SFM: 3
SFNE: 5
SFOG: 5
SFStL: 2
SFoT: 4
SFA: 6What do we see? Six Flags America has received as many new coasters as SFGAm, and only three Six Flags parks have received more new coasters than SFA since 1998.Here's something else you fail to understand: amusement parks aren't charity. It's not a fairness game. "Even distribution" of rides just doesn't work because it's a ridiculous business idea. Why would you add the same number of coasters to hugely popular park as you would to a tiny park? Not all parks have the same growth potential.
And as for your little example of "other chains," you fail to note that neither Michigan's Adventure nor Paramount's Great America has received a new coaster since 2002 (and, in fact, PGA has lost two coasters). So much for other chains being "fair."
SFNE-2,B:TDK in 02(was supposed to go to SFA that year)Says who?
-Nate
1998 doesn't count as the parks owned by premier made their 98 plans way in advance of the sale of SF....Roar was made well known except for name as early as october 97,I still have the FF map to prove it.
Various employees(& no they're not dipp'n dots or lemon chill guys) have stated that the ride sent to SFNE was planned for the park in 02 but because they couldn't get approval for the tunnels needed & the vehicle type used presenting potential safety problems if the ride vallied it was sent to SFNE.
Technically since 99 the only "new" coasters SFA recieved were JJ,Superman & Batwing...since two face & great chase were replacements for existing coasters they don't exactly count under that definition.
The MIA & PGA references hold little merit as they are only ONE park in their respective chain as a hold out when compared to SF giving coasters to the same parks over & over since 02 & you know that Nate.
It's good to know that we can still rely on BATWING FAN SFA for the lol's around here. Seriously...someone should make an archive of this stuff.
So if I trade in my 2002 Corolla for a stright-from-the-factory 2006 Lexis my Lexis isn't new? Please help me understand BatwingSFA's logic.
coasters ---- million people
added since ---- within 100 miles
1998
SFM: 3 ---- 30
SFGAdv: 8 ---- 28.1
SFMM: 7 ---- 17.6
SFNE: 5 ---- 15.7
SFGAm: 6 ---- 13.5
SFA: 6 ---- 12.4
SFMW: 8 ---- 10.7
SFOG: 5 ---- 7.6
SFoT: 4 ---- 6.7
SFAW: 1 ---- 6
SFKK: 3 ---- 4.8
SFEG: 3 ---- 3.9
SFStL: 2 ---- 3.9
SFFT: 3 ---- 3.5
SFNO: 2 ---- 3.1
SFDL: 2 ---- 3
Given this chart, it's completely unsurprising that A level parks with > 10 million people in the region are getting more investments than B level parks. The only one that glares out to me as having seriously been neglected in that time period for its size was Astroworld. Six Flags America by no means was overlooked.
I'm surprised they haven't built more in Mexico, but there were permit issues and I know they wanted to. Affluence levels in Mexico may not exactly be comparable with that in the US, the 28 million around NY and NJ I would suppose are much more likely to visit a theme park with more disposable income than those around Mexico City.
*** Edited 10/22/2005 5:25:26 PM UTC by Fierce Pancake***
They certainly have made SOME smart decisions:
Mr. Six
Waterpark in Gurnee
Hotel in NJ
NOT investing in a park you're going to sell
I would be the last person to say "they've never done ANYTHING right...(even if some of you took my first post that way). But overall, the better decisions HAVE come too late. And the reviews from the Halloween season show that there's still LOADS of learning to occur.
But lots of you seem "overly impressed" (IMO) regariding the experience factor. If you have lots of experince in the industry and continue to fail to grasp that this is a HOSPITALITY business first and foremost...then maybe it IS time for someone new to come along. I doubt Snyder made his fortune by NOT understanding where HIS personal shortcomings lie...in other words, he WOULD likely hire some industry professionals to help run things...which is FAR from saying that I think Snyder's the guy for the job - but it IS saying that for all of Burke's "valuable experience", he STILL. JUST. DOESN'T. GET. IT.
Just my opinion. And I don't have billion$ to prove how smart I am... ;)
I also agree that Astroworlds demise has been in the plans for a while as well.
Other than Frontier City, I think everything else is safe for now
BATWING FAN SFA said:
1998 doesn't count as the parks owned by premier made their 98 plans way in advance of the sale of SF....Roar was made well known except for name as early as october 97,I still have the FF map to prove it.
Huh? I fail to see your point. What does the Six Flags sale have to do with anything? Six Flags America was owned by the same company in 1998 as it is today. The company changed names, that's all.
Various employees(& no they're not dipp'n dots or lemon chill guys) have stated that the ride sent to SFNE was planned for the park in 02 but because they couldn't get approval for the tunnels needed & the vehicle type used presenting potential safety problems if the ride vallied it was sent to SFNE.
So BDK would need tunnels if it went to SFA but not at SFNE? And BDK would have safety issues at SFA but not at SFNE? Riiiight. There's little doubt in my mind that BDK was always meant for SFNE.
Technically since 99 the only "new" coasters SFA recieved were JJ,Superman & Batwing...since two face & great chase were replacements for existing coasters they don't exactly count under that definition.
Well, then perhaps you should go back and adjust your figures that don't account for coasters lost at SFGAdv, SFGAm, etc. What an odd line of reasoning.
The MIA & PGA references hold little merit as they are only ONE park in their respective chain as a hold out when compared to SF giving coasters to the same parks over & over since 02 & you know that Nate.
What does it matter how many parks there are? You said that other chains evenly distribute their rides. I pointed out that's NOT true by looking at MiA and PGA as examples.
If you want to keep looking, Valleyfair has only received one coaster since 2002 and three since 1998 (but one did "make up for" one that was lost, so apparently that means the park really added two). Other parks in the Cedar Fair chain have added four (CP, WoF) or five (DP) coasters since 1998. Cedar Fair is so unfair!!
-Nate
Paramount Owns/Operates 7 parks.
Cedar Fair Owns 7 parks and Operated another park till this year.
Six Flags Owns/Operates 20 parks currently, and between 1998 and
now operated/owned even more (26) (not counting water parks, cause that would prove my point even more).
Since 1998, Paramount Parks has added the following Coasters:
PGA-(4) Stealth, Psycho Mouse, Invertigo, Taxi Jam
Bonfonte-(0) Opened in 2001 with 2 coasters, but Paramount has added none
PKI-(6) Avatar [2006], Son of Beast, Italian Job, Face/Off, Reptar, Scooby
PKD-(4) Italian Job [2006], Hypersonic XLC, Ricochet, Volcano
PCar-(6) Top Gun, Ricochet, BORG (which was relocated), Super Saturator, Taxi Chase, Reptar
PCW- (5) Italian Job, Tomb Raider, Fly, Silver Streak, Taxi Jam
Terra Mitica- (4) Alucinakis, Magnus, Tizona, Ten Bravo
Since 1998, Paramount Parks has lost the following coasters:
PGA- (2) Greezed Lightnin’, Stealth
PKI- (1) King Cobra
So, for Paramount Parks, between 7 parks, they’ve added 29 Coasters in 8 years (counting next year). They’ve lost 3, so that means they only added 26 according to BWFSFA.
Paramount has added 3.25 coasters per year on average in 8 years according to BWFSFA. And that is 3.25 per year, not per park. So in 8 years, they’ve spread out 3 and a quarter coasters, or LESS THAN FOUR, coasters over 6 parks. Paramount has taken away .375, or LESS THAN ONE coaster spread out over all parks per year for the past 8 years.
Since 1998, Cedar Fair has added the Following Coasters:
Cedar Point- (4) Millennium Force, Dragster, Wicked Twister, Woodstock
Geauga Lake- (0)
Knott’s- (3) Xcelerator, Ghostrider, Silver Bullet
Michigan’s Adventure- (3) Big Dipper, Mad Mouse, Shivering Timbers
Vallyfair!- (2) Steel Venom, Mad Mouse Dorney- (4) Hydra, Talon, Woodstock, Wild Mouse [Herc]
Worlds of Fun- (4) Patriot [2006], Mamba, Boomerang, Spinning Dragons
Knott’s Camp Snoopy- (1) Timberland Twister [debatable, as CF only ‘ran’ the park, and the contract ended in
2004, when the coaster was added, but we’ll included it anyways]
Since 1998, Cedar Fair has lost the following coasters:
Knott’s- (1) Windjammer
Valleyfair!- (1) Rails
Dorney- (1) Hercules
Worlds of Fun- (1) Orient Express
So far, Cedar Fair, between 8 parks, they’ve added 21 coasters in 8 years (counting next year). They’ve lost 4, so that means they only added 17 according to BWFSFA.
Cedar Fair has added 2.12 coasters per year on average in 8 years according to BWFSFA. And that is 2.12 per year, not per park. So in 8 years, they’ve spread out 2 coasters, or LESS THAN THREE, over 8 parks. Cedar Fair has taken away .5 (one half), or LESS THAN ONE coaster spread out over all parks per year for the past 8 years.
Since 1998, Six Flags has added the Following Coasters in parenthesis and lost the number in brackets:
(I’m not naming every single one here, as that takes up too much time, just numbers)
America- (6) [2]
Astroworld- (1) [2]
Belgium- (4)
Darien Lake- (2) [1]
Elitch Gardens-(3) [1]
Fiesta Texas- (3) [1]
Great Adventure- (8) [1]
Great America- (6) [1]
Holland- (5)
Kentucky Kingdom- (3) [1]
Magic Mountain- (7)
Marine World- (9) All coasters added since 1998, Six Flags since 1999 (2 coasters in 98 pre six flags,
but we’ll keep ‘em in here anyways)
Mexico- (3)
New England- (5) [2]
New Orleans- (2) All coasters were added since 1998, but Neither SFI or Premier owned the park at opening
with 4 coasters
Worlds of Adventure- (6)
Over Georgia- (5) [1]
Over Texas- (4)
St Louis- (2)
La Ronde- (3) counting one for next year
Great Escape- (4)
Enchanted Villiage- (2)
American Adventures- (0)
Wyandot Lake- (0)
Warner Brothers Movie World Germany- (3)
Warner Brothers Movie World Madrid- (5) Opened with coasters
So far, SFI, between 26 parks, they’ve added 98 coasters in 8 years (counting next year). They’ve lost 13, so that means they only added 85 according to BWFSFA.
SFI has added 10.62 coasters per year on average in 8 years according to BWFSFA. And that is 10.62 per year, not per park. So in 8 years, they’ve spread out
10 coasters, or MORE THAN THREE, over 8 parks.
SFI has taken away .125, or LESS THAN ONE HALF coasters spread out over all parks per year for the past 8 years.
So, even if your park isn’t getting what you ask, the chain as a whole is still getting over 10 coasters per year on average. Far better than Paramount or CF. Oh, and SFI takes far less coasters away as well…
Take into account that many SFI parks (as well as the other chains) have added flats, water parks, water rides, and more, and it makes BWFSFA and all the other whiners look even more ridiculous.
To think I got paid to do all that ;).
*** Edited 10/24/2005 6:38:16 AM UTC by TeknoScorpion***
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