$200,000 a year spent at Disney?

Jeff:

Where do you live? Our power if fortunately flat rate, so we don't even bother trying to game it with the backup battery.

Hopefully VW is in before they start shipping the Buzz in the US. I want one, and I'm gonna put peace signs on it.

We live in the suburbs of Chicago. We've been on real time pricing for 5 years. On average we save $10 per month, so it's not life changing money. That's somewhat misleading though. From June - September our panels produce a surplus giving us a $0 bill.

I'm excited about the ID.Buzz as well. I'm a little disappointed that the interior looks more traditional than the concept version but that's not completely unexpected. I liked the idea of removing the middle seats and the ability of the front row seats being able to rotate. But I can certainly live with its current iteration and the potential $40-50k price tag. Considering they will be arriving in dealerships in 2024 I doubt the plug will change on the early production runs. I'm ok with that since my other chargers will be compatible. By the way, my wife doesn't miss an opportunity to rib me about liking the new "hippie van".

Jeff:

I'm not against nuclear, but economically there's no world where it makes sense. Even some of the "mini" projects have been bailed on recently.

As I understand it, this is mostly due to overbearing regulations, which are, at least in part, due to an irrational fear of nuclear. Even if we don't need nuclear for power generation now, we're very likely going to need it for carbon sequestration at some point.

This is interesting, as we are finally in the market for a new vehicle. And it's been a minute.

Our newest vehicle is our 2012 Equinox, which has just been perfect for all our road-trips and running adventures. It also only has about 97,000 miles on it (our work commute is less than 10 miles). It's still in great shape, but our oldest is going to inherit the older car, so we're starting to explore.

Back in 2012 the Equinox was about $25,000. This upcoming year the Chevy lineup is getting interesting (with an EV equinox, even); now I'm not at all married to Chevrolet at all, we've just had good luck with them and once upon a time I worked on a factory line in a GM plant for a summer job. I was surprised to see prices in the mid to high 20's for some EV models this year already.

And don't forget that is pre $7500 tax credit. All Chevy EVs qualify for the full amount, provided you don't make too much money.

We're not exactly ready to buy just yet, but it would seem that the new rules for 2024 are going to put a dent into what the incentive is meant to do, which is increase the sale and distribution of EVs. A big pro is it's the same $$ but now serves as a point-of-sale discount (so you don't have to wait to put it on a tax return), but the list of cars that will qualify is going to go way down due to some stricter regulations.

I’m going to be one of the last people to go EV. I do too many road trips (up to 12 hours a day.). Losing hours of driving to charging is not enticing to me at all. When charging can be done as fast as a full up I’ll consider switching.

You wouldn't lose hours to charging. I'm telling you from experience.

You've done multi-day road trips with "up to 12 hours a day" of driving in your electric cars?

Really, last I checked it’s what 20 min for a half charge. A model S goes 400 miles on a full charge. Going to Dollywood from my house is 778 miles, let’s assume perfect driving conditions.

-400 miles on a full charge, 378 miles left to go

+20 min to supercharge

-200 miles on a half charge, 178 miles left to go

+20 min to supercharge

-Get there and need to supercharge again as I’m 22 miles away from no juice

+20 min to supercharge

That’s an hour lost in the best driving conditions, and going 55mph to get the advertised mileage and assuming there is a supercharger where I need it. It makes the drive not doable in a day for me, 12 hours on the road is my limit. Not worth it to me.

Sorry, but road trips in electric cars are doable but certainly not nearly as convenient as ICE cars. It takes significantly longer to charge than fill up a tank of gas, with less range. Based on Touchdown's driving habits it becomes far less doable. We took our ID.4 on a road trip this summer knowing full well that it would take more time to drive. We almost missed a few tour reservations because of less than ideal charging rates.

Again, it can be done but there are more limitations than an ICE road trip. For Touchdown's driving habits an electric car would really be pushing it. I didn't have any major issues as I like to stop every few hours to get out and stretch my legs a bit. Plus, with four people in the car someone always has to use the bathroom.

As an aside, you aren't sniffing 400 miles of range on an electric car unless you pony up for a Model S or a Lucid Air. Both start at $70k+. Toyota may move the needle if they can bring the costs down on their solid state battery. Their second generation battery is promised to get 630 miles of range with a 10%-80% charge time of 10 minutes. But you'll have to wait until well past 2027.

eightdotthree:

You've done multi-day road trips with "up to 12 hours a day" of driving in your electric cars?

Yes. And mind you, I'd probably fly next time because all of that driving sucks. I can't account for how other people drive and with whom, but with a family you've gotta stop periodically, for food, restrooms, whatever. You just do that where the superchargers are. 90% of the time you're charged before you're ready to continue.

I don't get this insistence that it's less convenient. Maybe if you're hard core and must spend every moment driving. But are we really splitting hairs about 20 minutes charging? I've waited that long trying to get fast food. I've waited hours during layovers in airports. This is about making choices, and I think some folks have a predisposition to choose reasons it "can't" work. I have lived experiences that it can, that it works for me.

I’m single, I’ll take 1 hour break for lunch, but other than that, bathroom stops are >5min. I’m really that efficient.

This is why all the current very well-done hybrids and plug-in hybrids are great for those who require a monthly distance of over 300+ miles.

And I think more things like how the new Ram Charger works will be useful for those that have to tow, and etc. (it has a V6 Pentastar in it, but not connected to the drivetrain, it's being used as a generator)

My concern is still with the availability of chargers. Tesla's network is incredible but it's going to get a lot more congested in 2024 and if you're not with Tesla god speed. One trip I am making in February involves driving to Snowshoe, WV to ski. There's realistically 1 charger along the way and they don't have destination charging. Combine that with the reduced battery performance in the cold and it get's dicey. I would need full charge 1.5 hours into the trip to make it back to the same charger on the way back. I know that's a very specific example but it is real world.

I evangelize electric cars to people who drive around their city. It's a no brainer for that use case and range is not anywhere near the issue it's made out to be in that situation. If I was still commuting to the suburbs I would definitely own one.

Sharpel007:

This is why all the current very well-done hybrids and plug-in hybrids are great

I tried to buy a Toyota Rav 4 Prime but the salesman had no idea when we could one. Plug in hybrids would have been a great transition to electric because customers would realize how little they actually needed the ICE in their daily lives.

Maybe I'm "Coasterbuzzing" again, and I live in the "blue as blue can be" Bay Area, but there is a question of the environmental cost of an ICE. At some point, a relevant question becomes "Is the added convenience of not having to spend 30-60 min. of charging a car on long road trips worth 10 years of added carbon pollution?" regardless of personal benefit or cost. And yes, I know that making the battery is not free, carbon-wise, etc.

You know speaking of carbon footprints, I read something the other day that said the battery for the EV Hummer has a bigger carbon footprint due to its size, than a small sedan with an ICE, and all the carbon that comes along with the fuel burn over its lifetime.

If that is the case, why are we even producing vehicles like that? Govenment should really step in and stamp out all these trucks and suv's being made.

The EV Hummer is as dumb as a gas hummer. I don't understand why it exists.

Re: Andy, that's why there's a little big of judgy undertone in my thinking, because there's more at stake than convenience. Everyone has an anecdote about why it can't work, but I'm certainly not the only one who has made it work for years. I did the hybrid thing starting in 2010, and it was great getting nearly 50mpg. We flipped to our first EV in 2014 (Nissan Leaf, range ~80 miles), and a Model S the next year (range ~240 miles). I can't name a single time that having two EV's has ever been an issue, aside from the time we had friends in to cruise with, and we couldn't drive both of our cars to the port because of the range of the Leaf. See, I have anecdotes too.

I've picked up filthy electrons from all over the southeast...

I'm actually perfectly fine with electric vehicles. As a car guy and a driving enthusiast I just don't want one. Not that anyone asked. But I admit the thought of the eventual phase-out of the ICE is depressing. I don't want to drive and work on ICE cars for hobby only.