$0 for the site

I've got my share of bills and I'm not rich, but I feel $20 a year is a small price to pay to get the info, insight and good discussion on coasters that this site offers.I've gotten used to the fact that nothing much of any quality is free anymore. So why should I mind paying for something I actually like!

If you don't understand how a site like this generates revenue, you should read this...

Let me share with you how the majority of non-commercial sites work. One of two things happens. On one hand, you might have someone who pays for a site out-of-pocket and doesn't care that it costs money. On the other hand, you have people like me that spend over a grand a month to keep the site up, and hopefully pay for it with advertising that is served by an agency like DoubleClick or Burst Media.

These agencies sell on our behalf (and keep half of the money) because someone who has only a million ad impressions to give (like this site) more than likely doesn't have the time or expertise to sell itself.

However, like anything else surrounding the Internet business practices in the last two or three years, common sense with regards to advertising somehow disappeared. Originally, there was the notion that, because the audience could take action on the advertising by clicking on the ad, that it was a better medium leading directly to the sale with immediate and measurable results. The concept of click-through ratio (or CTR, the measure of ad impressions to the number of times they're clicked) was born.

Initially, CTR was high because frankly we were interested. Over time, CTR bottomed out in a very ugly way because apparently people tune out the ads.

However, several firms have recently conducted research that shows that an ad that never gets clicked on is in some cases more effective than one that doesn't. Why? Look at traditional advertising for a clue.

Branding and frequency combine to leave a lasting effect. Think about outdoor ads, magazines, TV and radio spots, etc. When you see an ad for a Coke or even a car, do you run right out and buy one? Of course not! Will you consider it when you're thirsty or ready to trade in your wheels? Of course!

And that's why people spend big bucks on the Superbowl. The advertisers adhere to the traditional (and rational) concepts of advertising. The problem is that many of them still think that Net advertising is a magic bullet, and CTR indicates the effectiveness of the campaign. Because of that, they're buying less and paying less for it.

No, this isn't TV... yet. And everything is a money thing, don't kid yourself. Just because it's something that "provides information" or "connects you to the world" doesn't mean it should be free. If that was true, most forms of media and the telcos wouldn't exist.

In the end, you don't have to pay a dime. That's your choice. You can enjoy the site just the same. But to suggest that $10 is too much in a year to help pay for something you enjoy... well, I'm not sure there's any way I can respond to that. I have a mortgage and a wife working on her PhD, somehow I think I can manage to scrounge up ten bucks over the course of a year.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

And by the way... if you still don't have a grip on what sites like this one provide, read the Libera Manifesto again.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

The reason I said I wouldn't pay for an ad-free site is that I consider this site more of a passive entertainment.  I really only check it when I'm bored at work; I don't look forward to it like I do going to a movie, out to eat or whatever.

That said, if given the option of losing the site or paying for it, I've decided I would pay $25 a year.  The reason being, I just dropped my ACE membership for two reasons.  1) Because all their news I get at this site two months in advance, and 2) Because my job in the media gives me all the perks (free tickets, press days) that ACE members get.  Since ACE membership is $50 a year, I reckon half of that should go to the place where I now get all my info...the only coaster site I ever visit now that Thrillride's gone. 

But I still don't think I'd pay for an ad-free site.  If I paid for ad-free sites on all the Web sites I visit daily, that'd cost me a pretty penny.  My other favorite site, www.wheresgeorge.com, has "gold" memberships" that have no ads, among other perks (i.e., unlimited searches, whereas they are limited to 3 a day otherwise).

And you can also scramble up the money it takes to travel to several parks a year, all expenses you may encounter while traveling, and still have some kind of income(obviously) and then do what you do with this site. You built it, people came, then it's like maybe too many people came(?), or I wish there was an intelligence test to kick some these idiots away(?), or the ads just aren't enough people, something(?). All I'm saying is one site charges, another site charges, another site charges, then you are paying for eberything you look at. $10 here, $10 there, $5 here, $1 there, where would it stop? Alot the sites I visit are no way this busy, the traffic is much lower. It's the information superhighway, not an income generator. It's information, it's "talking", it is the closest thing to near free communicating(and by communicating I don't mean talking on a phone) there is and people want to change that. Businesses on the web are different. Trust me, I would love to put something on the web and make that my job, I just know better so I wouldn't jump into anything like that. Besides, I have nothing to offer and I know that:). After we pay off bills, see what each other needs, and then spend the rest on relaxation, that's what makes $10 so much.

One thing that would make me more inclined to pay the cost is if parks like PKI and HW would recognize a paid membership to this site as the equivalent of belonging to a coaster club like ACE or GOCC.  Would that be a feasible option for you Jeff?  Would the production of membership cards be too much additional hassle?

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p_c_r said:
Something I can't help notice, but I see alot of credit card and casino ads, aren't most on this site too young for that anyway?

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Which is actually one of the points. The "supported by the ads" concept works only if the ads are relevant enough to actually generate support. DoubleClick serving up credit card ads to an audience that can't get a credit card, results in no interest, and thus no ad revenue.

Jeff's NOT looking to make money here. He pays for this site, *out of pocket*. Ads used to help offset that cost, but not any more. This is the point I think a LOT of you are missing.

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--Greg
"Beat the rush, sign up for your post-Mean Streak MRI now..."
My page  My other page  And my coaster page

*** This post was edited by GregLeg on 10/24/2001. ***

PointMan: That is a consideration I'm exploring right now. Obviously that's not a one-man operation, so it strongly depends on how willing some of the people I trust the most can help.

I'd also mention that I had a very positive chat with one of our moderators, who sells print media in his day job. He might very well take the Pepsi challenge.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I would not mind paying a small fee yearly for this. I enjoy it, you work hard at, so you are entitled to some compensation in whatever form. I do think that perhaps getting some sponsorship from parks would not be a bad idea to persue. CP, HW, PKI, or whoever should realize how much advertisement they already get here with trip reports alone. I went to Dorney Park this year because of the site. I am going next year to new parks, because I read about them here. I am not the only one who does that. It certainly would be worthwhile to check into getting some park sponsors.

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Any resemblance to living or
dead people is purely coincidental.

There are more and more exciting things unfolding, almost by the hour, thanks in part to your encouragement and suggestions. I think we've got something cool here... stay tuned!

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I have been posting on this site for all of a week now and I am out here every day. There is alot of good content here, good news, and polite forums. I used to post to RRC but the flame wars that continue to occur there ticked me off to the point where I am rarely there. I was mostly there to pick up current news which I can get here and a heck of a lot easier. After a week posting here I can definately, without question say that I will be one of the charter subscribers to the 10 buck premium site. Until then, I am clicking on a banner every time I come to this site to do my part.

Cheers
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Bob Hansen

"Excuse me while I kick the sky!"
kickthesky@hotmail.com

I WILL PAY TO PLAY GOOD  BANG FOR THE BUCK .

I think if 10, 20 or 30 dollars a year is to much, then you need to think about what you might be spending money on,  I personally own a home, 3 cars and I have school bills for me and My wife.  I also spend a week in orlando once every six months ,  I have season passes for SF and Paramount parks.   I am making this all happen on one check.  I have realized that 30 dollars a year to help a great person like Jeff keep this site rolling along at a high rate is worth giving up dinner out with my wife once a year.  Or giving up a couple of beers and dogs at a orioles game, not much of a sacrifice to help keep my daily coaster fix taken care of.  God Bless the Buzz.

First of all, Thank You Sethman for acknowleging my concern. I will reitterate that I myself would be more than willing to contribute to keep CoasterBuzz alive, but it MUST remain open to the GP. At the very least, the news and forums need to be free to all. If there are other areas that can be accessed by "premium paid" members, then that would be fine.

I cant say enough what a GREAT IDEA Pointman has. If coasterbuzz "premium" subscribers would be recognized as a legitimate Rollercoaster enthusiat organization, that would be well worth the subscription fee. Perhaps Coasterbuzz becomes the ACE of the information age.
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My other car is a Giovanola!

*** This post was edited by LoadedG on 10/24/2001. ***

Regarding the original issue of paying to look at a website, that's crazy, IMO, and not something I can afford.......

But, seeing as how he's proposing "other" things, I see joining something more than a site IS something worth affording. I'm a print media kind of junky, I was big into fanzines about horror and music and still enjoy something I can touch. Wether it be a newsletter, a magazine, a card, something, but like said, you get all the new info from the web, not from magazines and newsletters like five or ten years ago. Magazines sure were pretty:(.......

Of course, the "click-through ratio" is pretty meaningless anyway. It's based on what...the number of clicks compared to the number of banners served? Every page on the site has two banners on it, so that means a 50% click through MAXIMUM to begin with. Then to put those banners on a site with literally thousands of pages.....

Counting clicks versus banners might make sense on a site with a lot of static content, or with fewer pages per visit. But on a site where the pages-per-visit count may be approaching triple-digits, it just doesn't make sense. Particularly when most of us weren't planning to go find out about the product right then and there anyway. It's okay if the advertising interrupts my browsing session, but I'll get to the advertiser's product when I'm done with what I opened the browser for in the first place.

It IS just like with traditional advertising. The commercial comes on TV, I even consider buying the product until the show is over. Hmmm...That gives me an idea for a new Web advertising model.....

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I would pay an annual fee for this site. I come here everyday. I do not post that often because I do not think I always have something worthy of contributing. I enjoy just reading the post. The cost of running a free site is very high. I would gladly pay a fee to help take some of the load off Jeff.

Personally I don't post much anymore, but I mainly come on here for the news, the database of coasters, and some of the other non-forum related coaster info. That stuff is priceless considering there is nowhere else on the net that comes close to it. I think those reasons alone are enough for me to support this site.

As for the forums, and maybe this is just me, I just don't think they're what they used to be. Not to mention that if I was paying money to use them I'd sure feel like an*****if someone deleted my post.

We all know this site is worth ten bucks a year.

Actually, the click-through ratio is very meaningful with the ads that they're showing now! If nobody clicks on a banner advertising, say, Amazon.com, amazon.com still gets the brand recognition. If nobody clicks on a banner that says "CLICK ON THE DOT YOU ALMOST MISSED OUT!!!111", the banner is helping absolutely nobody. Therefore, only clicks and not displays are meaningful for those banners. The problem is, nobody cares if they didn't almost miss out (and I don't blame them!)

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A bad day at Cedar Point is better than a good day at work.

Well, it has been a crazy day. The bad news is I lost my job today, pretty much as a direct result of the attacks.

The good news is that some of the things you all talked about in this topic came to fruition very, very quickly. Lots of good stuff lined up already. I hope to make announcements on it early next week. It won't be a job, but at least I'll hopefully continue to break even on my hobby.

Right now, I'm gonna sleep in, enjoy my anniversary this weekend, and try to keep my mind off of what's next. It's almost a little liberating not knowing what you'll be doing tomorrow, but at the same time it scares the hell out of me...

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"