b&m using TOO many trims!

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MooreOn said:
"Jeff, why do you have such strong opinions about trims? It's not really a big deal. They bother some people, and others don't really care. I think you're a little sweeping in your classification of anybody who hates trims as a "coaster snob.""

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I feel strongly about it because I've been on rides with enthusiast who make some comment through the mid-course and I find that insanely ridiculous. The second half of the ride might be one or two seconds longer because of it.

What's worse, you suddenly get someone new to the coaster scene saying the same thing because they heard some other person with a hundred coasters in their track record say it.

My opinion is part of a larger feeling that a certain number of enthusiasts have gone off the deep end, and are more inclined to analyze a ride than enjoy it.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

I have ridden Raging Bull so many times. It is kind of funny though. The first trim does not always activate. It must be speed related thing. Sometimes I can hear the trims but not feel it. Other times you really feel it. But still on the downside of that hill after the trim produces some of the best floating time I have ever had on a roller coaster. It seems that the trim gets the ride to the right speed to produce a nice floating sensation. One where your not thrown abruptly into the lapbar...nor where you dont leave your seat. Now for me I dont mind getting thrown into a lapbar. But I doubt the GP does.

ROI is can be indirectly related to trims, because without trims the coaster can be too intense. And coasters that are too intense don't go over too well with John Q. Public.

A park tries to build rides that can be ridden and enjoyed by the most people possible, if you do that then you've got more people coming in buying food, concessions, etc. And that all helps on the ROI on a coaster that's not too intense thanks to trims.

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it...eventually

B+M uses the trim brakes for safety. They are used for keeping the ride from getting too intense. They are found on an upward slope on Apollo's Chariot because the train is approaching that hill that is banked at the top. It would prevent lateral when it is at that point. There are a couple on Raging Bull to prevent too much air time. The one on Mantis is there, obviously, to reduce speed when going through the loop. An intense ride is good, but not if it's going to provide high Gs that will break your neck. Duh!!! *** This post was edited by B+M Coasters on 2/8/2001. ***

Just because People have seen trims on Talon and Wildfire, How do we know the park will use them immediatly?? You forget nowadays that parks actually install some trim brakes for FUTURE USE incase people complain of the coaster being too intense, and of course it saves them installing them 1/2 years after it is built. Trims were seen on some floorless coasters last year(Kraken and BKF to name 2 of them) and yet I have heard of no reports of the park actually using them yet, Well I know the ones on Kraken havent been used yet.

You see, if a park gets complaints of a new coaster being very intense, the park can easily alter the already built trim brakes instead of closing the coaster, rebuilding the coaster with the trims and then re-opening the coaster. This happened on Montu, The trim before the batwing was not there when built, The trim on The Mantis drop was not there when built. So I think you will find this is why Parks install trim brakes when building coasters nowadays even though they might not actually use them

I know we hate Trims, but at the end of the day, they are there for safety and a less intense ride.

Trims are there to control the speed of the ride. duh. When it is hotter out, the trains tend to run a bit faster. Therefore, they need the trims to slow the train down. The in colder months, the trims are very light or not on at all because the trains run slower.
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-I see stars because I just rode Flashback, can you see them to?

Is there a trim on the raptor? I couldnt tell.

Raptor uses its mid-course block as a trim. How much seems to depend on how fast the ride is running. It has zero to do with intensity, everything to do with giving them enough time to load another train.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Ladies and Gentlemen, The truth is out there!

I have seen all the arguements for and against Trims and most have been mentioned in this forum.

John Wardley, Coaster Designer for Nemesis and Oblivion at Alton Towers, England (Both B&M Machines!) writes an excellent article about Coaster Design and explains trims from a Designer point of view as well as a Parks.

Interesting reading especially if you play RCT. His site is http://www.john-wardley.demon.co.uk

Enjoy!

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Guests are complaining there are too many trim brakes on this ride

Wardley makes some excellent points in his lecture. Everyone should read this.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

I wonder if what we are looking at are really trims or are they zone breaks? Medusa east has what looks like a trim on the lift hill but, it is really a zone break that would only be used if necessary for ride safety.

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beast7369 said:
"I have ridden Raging Bull so many times. It is kind of funny though. The first trim does not always activate."

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If the trim does not always activate, it must be because the park has some control over the trim brakes. All I was saying is that it is not exclusively B&M that decides how the trims work, the park has some say as well. If a park feels that the coaster needs to be slowed down, it will do so.

Trims only kick in if they sense that you are going faster than what they want you to go. So, B&M sets the speeds that they kick in at and the park would have no reason to change it.

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The Raging Bull #1!!

I totaly trust the judgment of B&M, despite the fact the the ride has a trim on it, that does'nt stop it from beeing a great ride. I've rode Banshee...er...Mantis with and without the brakes. Without the brakes, very intense. With, still intense, but more controled, and you get hang time in the loop which is realy fun.

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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2

I beleive that B-M are the best at designing,engineering and building roller coasters! Although I do agree that the trim brake on Mantis did ruin the drop,I also beleive that B-M know what they are doing as far as where and when to use trim brakes! Its hard to argue with a componey that constantly produces exellant rides time and time agian!There has to be a line between what is fun to ride and what people are willing to put themselfs through!Although I personally would ride just about anything built no matter how high or fast,I am not (normal) The average park customer has a certain tolerance to speed and intencity. Adding trim brakes makes the ride more enjoyable and rideable for more people,thus insureing the furture of thr ride and park at the same time!
A.C.E meber#13117

Trims,especially on steel coasters, are used to keep the the ride running consistently within it's design parameters. There are a number of variables that can affect the operation of the ride,such as temperature,wind speed,load,etc. This information is fed via sensors into a computer which in turn regulates the trims/block brakes. If any of these gets to far out of line it's possible to experience a set up. The system is there to insure efficient operation of the ride. It's also there to help protect the ride itself from excessive stress. I've talked to a couple of structural inspectors about this. If a coaster is running just slightly above its design speed it can cause considerable damage to the structure. All and all, what we are talking about here is safety,period.