b&m using TOO many trims!

Wednesday, February 7, 2001 12:31 PM
im sure most of you know how b&m are putting lots of trim breaks on their new coasters - appolos char., raging bull, ect. i even saw 2 on talon construction photos! i can only hope they dont load down nitro with trims. their coasters are among the best in the inndusty, especially for airtime. why ruin a perfectly good coaster!:(:(
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 12:36 PM
Dude they dont take off that much speed, and even if they did would you rather be dead from a dangerous rollercoaster or alive and enjoying another coaster. Thats what I thought. Stop complaining. If you dont like coasters with trims dont ride them. It will shorten the line for me. Preferably to the size of dragon fire last time I went. I walked right on the front car 10 times. That was sweet.
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 12:42 PM
They put them on so the trains hit the elements at the exact designated speed everytime. That way the ride will be preforming exactly how it was suposed to each and every time.

Trims don't bother me on steel. I hate to see them installed on woodies that are 20+ years older that were desiged to run without them.

I still can't believe Knoebels deleted the trim that was on the Phoenix when it was in Texas. It was on the high turnaround above the station similar to the one that the Comet at Hersheypark has. At least some parks get it right. ;)

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2000 stats: 135 coasters in 26 parks
Not Too Shabby For A Summer
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:11 PM
The only B&M trim that really got to me was Mantis's first drop trim... It ruined the drop for me.

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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:24 PM
Nitro has two mid-course trims just like Raging Bull and Apollo. One after the second hill and one just after the horseshoe turnaround.

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James Draeger
'00 CP Trips: 23
C G & C P
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:28 PM
I agree with brandon,the trim on mantis first drop does ruin it a bit.
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:48 PM
I would agree half on Mantis. It does ruin the drop but that loop would kill me if it was going any faster.

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Best Coaster: Millennium Force
Worst Coaster: Project Stealth
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:48 PM
Same here, I too noticed that it seems the latest B&M's have a lot of trims. I have not ridden Apollo's Chariot or Raging Bull. After watching the videos of on the ride it seems that they don't really affect it. But, Mantis is another story. I hated when they added the trims on the drop. CP has had two coasters that they ruined by adding trims. What a shame.:(

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No. 1 Steel Roller Coaster: Millennium Force

MF Count: 117
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:49 PM
No B&M trim 'ruins' the ride.

And, when you think about it, how many are actually used on a regular basis?
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 1:54 PM
Personally, I leave it to the folks in the industry to know whether or not they're using too many trims.

Although it drives some people nuts most of the rides you go on are designed for John Q. Public because that's where the money is at.

As its been stated in prior posts coaster nuts are in the minority, and so parks have to concentrate on families and the average Joe who doesn't even notice the trims, and are probably grateful for them. The GP doesn't dig huge Gs that rides without trims would deliver.

And since the GP doesn't like trimless big Gs then you're ROI goes down on the ride because people won't come in as big of droves to ride the new B&M, Arrow, or whatever because of the 'intensity'. This leads to less people buying On Ride Photos, concessions and souvenirs.

So, from a business stand point B&M is not using too many trims because they're still ordering them and the coasters are opening to rave reviews from the GP.

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it...eventually
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 2:17 PM
Well, both Raging Bull and Apollo's Chariot have trims going up a hill. And both of those hills give this "different" type of airtime. You gradualy float out of your seat, instead of just hoping to the the lap bar. I'm sure Nitro will have one, along with the other hypers.

As for Mantis; it does make the drop worse, but it's better for the rest of the ride. Also, Wildfire has trims on the first drop. I wonder how this will affect the ride...
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"4 Seats are better than 2"
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 2:38 PM
I don't know about you people, some of you complain about trims others don't care. I don't mind trims, matter of fact there is a trim on a bunny hop on Thunderhawk which I think only helps the ride. Another thing is most trims don't slow you down by a big chunck of speed.

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Talon is going to rock, roll, and take its toll!
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 2:44 PM
I for one trust the Swiss engineers who feel it is necessary to trim a ride for reasons I might not completely understand. In fact, so many trims are designed to either reduce stress on the ride's structure or help meet interval that I find it pointless for yet another discussion about this.

Furthermore, I absolutely can't stand to hear people cry and moan about trims, incapable of enjoying the ride because of something that is more psychological than real. Really, if you actually are that much of a coaster snob that it ruins the ride for you, go stand in line for cheese on a stick instead so that I may board the train sooner.

By the way, Randy, what does ROI have to do with trims? John Q. Guest wouldn't know a trimmed versus non trimmed ride if we diagramed it.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 2/7/2001. ***
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 4:39 PM
You have to remember also that the park has a lot of control over the number of trims, and how high they're turned on. Six Flags is, of course, notorious for nasty trims, but parks like, say Cedar Point, do not tend to overbreak their coasters. The trim on Mantis was not there when the ride was originally built, rather it was added after the first season, I believe, because several people complained that it was too intense. B&M shouldn't be blamed for trim brakes, it's mostly the park.

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E.J.
Webmaster: Theme Park New England
http://tpne.8m.com
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 4:54 PM
I would have to agree, since I've ridden "Mantis" without the trim brake on the first drop!
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 5:01 PM
I think Mantis' trim brake stands as an overlooked detail by B&M, not the park.

Really, if it was going to be a problem, B&M would have found a way around it, maybe by making the elements taller.

The same minor oversight is what causes Raptor to slam hard into the station brakes at the end of every ride. A misjudgement of speed.
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 6:02 PM

themeparkne said:
"The trim on Mantis was not there when the ride was originally built, rather it was added after the first season, I believe, because several people complained that it was too intense. B&M shouldn't be blamed for trim brakes, it's mostly the park."
Is it impossible to consider that the ride was causing extreme forces on the structure?

Again, I don't understand how it is that everyone seems to know better than the engineers and the parks.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 7:04 PM
And what is the problem with those trims on mantis. Next time you ride mantis...Get the front car and you will fall into the harness in the first loop, like you are falling to the ground, thanks to the trims on the drop.

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Cheeseburger Cheeseburger Cheeseburger
"Welcome to Millennium Force"

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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 7:07 PM

themeparkne said:
"B&M shouldn't be blamed for trim brakes, it's mostly the park."

All new B&M's (ie, 1999 and after) most likely will have trims SOMEWHERE on the rides course. The parks don't design the coasters, B&M does. Raging Bull came equipped with three trim brakes. B&M sets the speeds for these trims and block brakes, not the parks. That's not to say later they can't be turned on stronger, but B&M is the one who sets the initial speed the train should be travelling when it hits the trims.
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Wednesday, February 7, 2001 8:08 PM
Jeff, why do you have such strong opinions about trims? It's not really a big deal. They bother some people, and others don't really care. I think you're a little sweeping in your classification of anybody who hates trims as a "coaster snob." Personally, my favorite part of any roller coaster is that "out of control, flying to my death" feeling, and nothing kills this feeling more than the safety of a brake applied in the middle of the ride. Yes, I agree the effect is totally psychological, but it still is an effect, nonetheless. I completely understand the structural reasons why parks add trims, but I can complain about the effect they have on the ride even if I can't and won't do anything about it. Now I don't hate it enough to make me get out of line and buy a cheese on a stick, but I still think it takes away a few of my favorite parts of any ride, "out-of-controllness" and sheer blinding speed. Does feeling this way make me a coaster snob? I don't think so. At least I don't diss the opinions of others on this board.

No disrespect or ingratitude meant here...I'm just trying to support my opinions, here, plus I just finished typing a massive paper and am not in the best of moods now.
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Coasters...the best natural buzz available. *** This post was edited by MooreOn on 2/8/2001. ***
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