Nitro crest unlike most B&Ms?

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goonsta said:
"The dip is the reason for the back-seat whiplash on RB's first drop."

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Uh uh, Raging Bull's back seat is amazing! No whiplash here!
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-Glitchey
Indiana Beach 2001 - Pictures, Reviews, CornBall Express exclusive information - coming Spring 2001!

If the chain is slower, then wouldn't the chain dogs disengage slower, making the dip obsolete?

Or maybe they slow down the chain at the top.

Oh yea, the seats at the IAAPA show were different on that B&M coach, who's to say that they didn't change the chain dogs a little bit.

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A Green Machine is rising at SFO!

What can you do differently with a chain dog? The first time I saw one not attached to a coaster, I thought, "Wow, that's a truly unremarkable device."

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

To Camel (and anyone else interested!): In my opinion the reason the dip is there is to make the entire train go the same speed when it starts to descend the hill. This way the front doesn't hang going down and the back doesn't get snatched over the hill.

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What is life without ups and downs!?!?

No No, the whiplash is good!!
Very good.

Interesting theory Josh, but... because they're connected to one another each car has to go the same speed as the others at all times, right? If you pull a trailer with your car the trailer doesn't ever go a different speed than the car. I don't think the front of the train can go faster than the back or vice-versa. I also think the last car gets snatched over the hill whether the dip is there or not.


*** This post was edited by Camel on 1/30/2001. ***

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Jeff said:
"What can you do differently with a chain dog? The first time I saw one not attached to a coaster, I thought, "Wow, that's a truly unremarkable device."

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Now what's so unremarkable about a hunk of steel?
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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
*** This post was edited by ShiveringTim on 1/30/2001. ***

Shivering Tim,

Lots. Hunks of steel aren't very spectacular. I mean, I don't know about you, but generally I don't go to a steel mill and think to myself, "gee whiz Steel!" ;)

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Randy Hutchinson
You build it, I'll ride it...eventually

Me and my friend both loved the pre-drop section of Apollo's Chariot and we both agreed it's the scariest section of the whole coaster. It is one completely unsettling feeling with your feet being off the floor and reclined back in those seats.

So does anyone know why this "dip" is present on B&Ms?

If I remember right, a brake is installed up there, sort of a unnecessary precaution at the point of no return. I think Alpengeist actually uses this check brake as a trim sometimes. Mayhaps B&M realized that this brake is totally superfluous.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

The reason was to eliminate chain stress.

No, Scott, the real reason for trims at the top of the lifts on B&M is in case the ride needed to be trimmed later on in its life, the park wouldn't have to spend a boatload of money to get all the way up there to have one installed. It also saves the track the fatigue of having a trim installed into it. That's why the trims are there.

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If you are looking for trouble, you found it. -- Steven Hawking

The only way to truly eliminate "chain stress" is to reduce the load on the chain. The easiest way to do this is to make the trains lighter. The only real way they can reduce "chain stress" is not at the point of no return but at the bottom of the lift by matching the train speed at the point of engagement thus reducing the jerk factor on the chain, and they're doing this already.

As Jeff mentioned above, the only real benefit is to have the trains roll off the chain slower reducing wear on the chain dogs and the chain itself. High speed metal-on-metal collisions are not fun. Since every other coaster with a chain has these issues, I don't think there's anything special here. I still stand by the belief the dip is a clever way to include a trim and/or add another block to the system.

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Scott W. Short
scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

Wouldn't a single brake at the top of the lift be in the same block as the chain? Also, why would you need to trim the speed at the top of the lift?

Please don't take these questions the wrong way. I don't mean to be argumentative, I just want to have the best possible explanation that makes the most sense to all of us.

I beleive that the dip makes the trains accelerate. It also conceals the drop and when the descent occurs.....your starting out fast already!!
I think "Nitro's" drop will be interseting to say the least..............

The trim has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of blocking system. None at all. It's simply there to trim speed off a disengaging train if the park so desires to do so. How could that be part of a block? There is absoultely no way for it to stop a train, and in fact, the one I operate, the top of lift trim is turned OFF all the time. The word "OFF" is even underlined.

About the B&M dip, I really don't know, but I think it's for the chain disengagement. But I don't know.

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If you are looking for trouble, you found it. -- Steven Hawking

In relation to this topic, peeps complain that sitting in the front on Goliath is ruined as they hang so far down the drop before the back disengages the chain.

Don't forget, any train won't disengage from the chain till its center of gravity is past the apex of the lift hill. Of course the C of G will vary on the passenger loads.

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Wonderland Sydney, Australia.

Just a theory:

The little drop and flat piece of track allows the train to acheive a slighlty higher speed.

On a coaster without this the front cars of the coaster begin down the hill at the same speed they traveled up the lift hill until the last car disengages from the chain. Therefore the entire train has less of a distance to travel down the hill.

On a coaster with the little dip and flat track, the coaster doesn't begin its descent down the main hill until the enitre coaster has cleared the chain lift. Therefore when the descent begins the coasters begins to increase speed immediately taking full advantage of the hills height.

Now if trim brakes are used this defeats the purpose completely. I personally like the flat piece of track at the top. I don't care one way or the other for the hang time effect. Plus I just love B&M coasters.
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All time Top 5: (1) Milleniun Force (2) Alpengeist (3) Hulk (4) Ice Dragon (5) Raptor

jdancisin, I don't think the chain holds the train back at the top at all. Once enough of the train is over the crest, gravity takes over and the back of the train is pulled over the hill. The amount of potential energy would be the same whether the dip is there or not, just based on the height of the lift. This means that the same speeds would be achieved with or without the dip. (I think)
One point I agree with is that the front of the train isn't creeping over the drop at the beginning thanks to the dip.