Six Flags WoA... Enough is Enough
IOArules said:
It's like most of you who bash SFWOA have never been there and just make up stories or stupid comments just to fit in with the group and make it sound like you know everything.
Well, I dont *bash* the park as some. BUT, there is a problem with the operations that the majority of us have a problem with. Alot of the locals are also starting realize the same (hence the original poster of this thread). I definitely agree with Jeff's statement, *World class rides dont equal a world class park*
I agree with Intamin Fan. If you dont really like the park, dont go. Ive only been once, so...
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Dayuum, Your HOT! *** This post was edited by Coasterr on 8/16/2001. ***
Intamin Fan, I've never been to SFWOA, but I'm guessing why the park gets coasterbuzzers all riled up is that it would be such an awesome park if they could fix things like customer service and being anal about how many trash cans you set out.
The park has all the makings for one of the best if they can get their service down pat.
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"And then you say oh what a lovely tea party."
-Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
The park has all the makings for one of the best if they can get their service down pat.
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"And then you say oh what a lovely tea party."
-Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
SFWoA, i think is a great park! It is my homepark. It has 10 sweet roller coasters, including BKF, X-Flight, S:UE. The food is good, little heavy on the pricing though, i admitt. It good be a little cleaner but it is fine the way it is. Whoever said the layout wasnt good, whats up with that? I also add, 2 years, they will be the best park, or one of them with CP and MM.
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Cedar point...Where else will you fine 14 great coasters.
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Cedar point...Where else will you fine 14 great coasters.
I have a couple of followup comments to make after seeing so many responces to my original post. I am not bashing the park. I actually love it. I have been going there for many years, and it is killing me to see what it has now become. I was at a tent revival last year. The man behind the podium was in tears explaining how hurt he was that the daughter he raised in a good, christian home is now a crack addict and is living in drug houses. The young girl he raised, clothed, provided for and loved since birth is now throwing her life away. I am feeling the same pain with SFWoA. Granted not as bad, and I hope nobody reading this has to go through what that poor gentleman has. I have been going to Geauga Lake since I can remember (31 years or so?) It has some very special memories. I have met a lot of people there. As I am typing this, I have a picture of a very close friend Shawn who passed away last year. Shawn was a very young 47 years old, and lost his battle with cancer on October 5, 2000. We would go to Geauga Lake after work at least once a week. I keep a picture of Shawn, along with the card from the funeral home here at work right under my monitor. He is driving a purple car, and there is 2 young employees standing by the turnstlyes about to let a young boy in. Shawn and I had many great times at that park. It just hurts when something that you love so much is falling appart. Granted the new rides are great, I love Batman, Villian and Superman. Flat rides are great as well, I just wish there was more of them. I at one point during the season, was planning on getting a bunch of volunteers from refreshinglook.com (a very big fan page of SFWoA, in witch I am active) together, and writing a letter to the park, and voulunteering to put on the uniform, and help them with the problems of litter and graffiti. However, as the year has progressed, and parking has went up twice, as well as admission and fast pass etc..... It is clear they are making plenty of money. IF they were trully having financial problems, (yes, I know they are 2 billion in debt). I would be more than happy to help out. I intened to buy stock in Coneaut Lake next spring when it is offered in order to save that park, as it is trully having financial problems do to past owners (go figure). I am sure if they laid off a couple of the white collar workers who are always walking around the park with there radios in threre back pockets, and pass there responsabilities to someone else in the park, that the money they save would be way more than enough to pay several part timers that would seriously turn the park around. I would be embaraased to say I was the current head of the cleaning crew at SFWoA. I would **love** to have that title for 1 month, and then see how the park looks. A few posts up, I saw someone say they didnt care how the park looked, they were just there for the rides. If I was a visitor from out of town, and I was at the park, and saw all the garbage, do you think I would want to stay at the Six Flags hotel? No, I would assume the hotel would be ran the same way. For the record, I was in the lobby of the hotel, and that did appear to be very clean, and very well kept. I am not sure on the rooms though. Compare the "only there for the rides" message with a hotel. WHen I travel, I only go to a hotel to sleep, as I am out doing other things from early in the AM till late at night. Should I say I am only at the hotel to sleep, and I do not care about what the room looks like? If I pay an overinflated rate for a room, do I want to see paint chipping on the walls, or trash overflowing in my garbage can? No. Look at Kennywood. Cheap admission, free parking, and very low food prices for an amusement park. It is one of (if not thee) cleanest and most beautifully landscaped parks I have ever been too. I have made several trips there in the past couple of years, and hpe to continue. My only complaint is they do not offer a season pass. I live in Cleveland, they are in Pittsburgh, and yes, I would buy a season pass if they offered one. However, I do not have a proble with that, because I know they rely on admissions to pay for employees as well as future expansion. Sure, they could drasticly raise revenue by rasing admission or charging for parking, but they do not do that. I have no problem paying there admission price or food prices as I know I am getting way more than my moneys worth. I am getting a beautiffly landscaped, clean park with 5 outstanding coasters. It is a shame that Kennywood is the exception, instead of the standard others follow. Waladamere Park? Read what I wrote about Kennywood. Only difference is they have free admission. Canneaut Lake? I would be lying if I ranked it as clean as the other two I mentioned. However, I do give them a B effort. reason is the gun all over the walls in Devil's Den and in the tunnel on the Blue Streak. They have had previous owners stealing from the park. My point is, if I am paying Holiday Inn rates like Six Flags is charging, I do not expect the Sleep Cheap hotel.
Scotty
Scotty
I must say that this reminds me of when Premier bought the Six Flags chain, everything at SFGAM got turned upside down. The way the park had been being run without flaws for the last how many years was beautiful. Happy returning employee's and a great work environment. I spent 8 years at the park, and saw the park decline from when I started to the time I left. Crowds steadily declined over the years, and employee's become more negative and didn't seem to care. Low staffing and quality of employee's have gone down.
Once you work at a park you begin to notice things about parks and how they should be run to increase guest satisfaction. I mean when I first arrived at SFWOA I was a bit shocked at the ride operations department and how different it was compared to SFGAM, it just wasn't in the same class. SFWOA needs a lot of work to even come close to SFGAM and CP.
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BMCOASTER
bmcoaster@wi.rr.com
Once you work at a park you begin to notice things about parks and how they should be run to increase guest satisfaction. I mean when I first arrived at SFWOA I was a bit shocked at the ride operations department and how different it was compared to SFGAM, it just wasn't in the same class. SFWOA needs a lot of work to even come close to SFGAM and CP.
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BMCOASTER
bmcoaster@wi.rr.com
If you look at the parks in the Six Flags chain that were the original Six Flags parks, they all seem to continue to operate fairly well. You rarely hear complaints about SFMM, SFGADV, etc. The complaints seem to come from the converted Six Flags parks.
This is my theory, and it is only that. Gary thought he could buy these parks that were floundering, ala Geauga Lake, slap the Six Flags "brand" on them and even make some major capital improvements and....wala...great park! Problem is, it doesn't work that way.
Granted, the rides are great and all coaster lovers should be happy but where Gary has failed, and it certainly isn't all his fault, is his ability to transfer the old Six Flags philosophy onto the new parks.
When top management flounders, everone flounders. The symptoms are trashy park, poor customer service, irritated patrons...but you have to dig further to find the disease.
Apparently, the right combination of people is not in charge at SFWOA b/c there is no reason that the park in it's current state physically cannot contend with the SFMMs and Cedar Points of the business. They may be nearing the same level physically but they are out of there league in all other aspects of park operation. *** This post was edited by wahoo skipper on 8/16/2001. ***
This is my theory, and it is only that. Gary thought he could buy these parks that were floundering, ala Geauga Lake, slap the Six Flags "brand" on them and even make some major capital improvements and....wala...great park! Problem is, it doesn't work that way.
Granted, the rides are great and all coaster lovers should be happy but where Gary has failed, and it certainly isn't all his fault, is his ability to transfer the old Six Flags philosophy onto the new parks.
When top management flounders, everone flounders. The symptoms are trashy park, poor customer service, irritated patrons...but you have to dig further to find the disease.
Apparently, the right combination of people is not in charge at SFWOA b/c there is no reason that the park in it's current state physically cannot contend with the SFMMs and Cedar Points of the business. They may be nearing the same level physically but they are out of there league in all other aspects of park operation. *** This post was edited by wahoo skipper on 8/16/2001. ***
gatorwoodie said:
"My girlfriend Jill has suggested that Six Flags should change its logo/icon thing from the colored flags to an overflowing trash can. I know that employees are EXPENSIVE, but so are tickets to the park. By 7:00 pm, no matter what SF park you're in, you see trash on top of most cans, because they're OVERFLOWING - I guess taking out the trash 1x/day is good at home, but how many of you have thousands of visitors a day at your house? If my house looked like that, and visitors were treated rudely (not my experience at SFWoA, but HAS been at other SF parks), would I have the nerve to call them "guests"? I think NOT. One last point: How much extra does it cost to hire friendly employees? CP, HW, KBF - they all do it...Can I pay an upcharge (kind of like a Fastpass) to force employees to treat me appropriately - I'm not asking for a lifelong friend, just decent treatment...
*** This post was edited by gatorwoodie on 8/16/2001. ***"
Well first of all I totaly agree with Scottie. Cedar Fair parks tend to be some of the cleanest and frendliest parks in the country. Like at valleyfair!, a mid-sized park they have 3-4 dumpster teams! What that is is on of those big Rubbermade dumpsters with 3 employees who pull it arond and change EVERY garbage can they see! It doesn't even matter if the can is full or not, they still pullit! They also have LOADS of sweepers and on noumerouse occations I've seen employees down on hands and knees litterally scrapeing gum off the midways with the chemical. I've NEVER seen the that at a Six Flags. At Cedar Point I've even seen a small section of midway closed and a little Rug Doctor looking machine that takes the gum off the conncrete! I bet you guys who are backing up Six Flags haven't seen the Geauga Lake! That thing is FILTHY and it stinks!!!! Skim the damn thing at least once a year!!! *Get's Off Soapbox.
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Cameron Willis
Dr. Doolittle 2: "So young, so angry. Damn that rap music!" *** This post was edited by CoasterCameron on 8/16/2001. ***
wahoo skipper said:
"Ok, the above went a little far. I don't believe the company is actually responsible for the lake itself. It may have to clean the banks once in a while but I am sure there is an environemental agency somewhere that oversees it."
No, that wasn't overboard that's the truth! And the banks are the problem!!! The banks have has much trash in them as all the garbage cans in the park combined!!!
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Cameron Willis
Dr. Doolittle 2: "So young, so angry. Damn that rap music!"
I'm a park regular. I've had my good days and bad.
Looking at it from a GP perspective let me point out the obvious:
The midways are too small and people are crammed together tighter than sardines. If I already see trash on the ground and I have to fight people just to get to a trash can it's just easier to throw it on the ground.
The solution to the problem is not to hire more employees although that couldn't hurt, it is to make the midways wider and to put more trash cans in.
Let me point out my thought of the general problems of SFWOA:
I hear many of my teachers and relatives reminiscing about Euclid Beach Park. During the Fifties and Sixties the park didn't have a new coaster for over Twenty Years (1930), but people still had a wonderful time. Why?
It was an escape from the real world. When they were at "The Beach" people didn't have to think about litter, rude employees, etc. Granted it was a differant era, but when I'm at Six Flags I'm not happy most of the time, but when I go to the Waldameer in Erie, Pa I have a wonderful time on average rides. Waldameer is the closest thing I can compare to Euclid Beach (Never been to Kennywood or Knoebol's). After a day at Waldameer you always go home feeling refreshed and happier than when you came. At Six Flags Worlds of Adventure you don't.
Plain and simple, amusment parks were originated as places to escape from the pressures of real life. And at some (CP, SFGam, Waldameer) you still can. But this is where SFWOA is failing.
(p.s. Parking at Waldameer is FREE!) :)
Looking at it from a GP perspective let me point out the obvious:
The midways are too small and people are crammed together tighter than sardines. If I already see trash on the ground and I have to fight people just to get to a trash can it's just easier to throw it on the ground.
The solution to the problem is not to hire more employees although that couldn't hurt, it is to make the midways wider and to put more trash cans in.
Let me point out my thought of the general problems of SFWOA:
I hear many of my teachers and relatives reminiscing about Euclid Beach Park. During the Fifties and Sixties the park didn't have a new coaster for over Twenty Years (1930), but people still had a wonderful time. Why?
It was an escape from the real world. When they were at "The Beach" people didn't have to think about litter, rude employees, etc. Granted it was a differant era, but when I'm at Six Flags I'm not happy most of the time, but when I go to the Waldameer in Erie, Pa I have a wonderful time on average rides. Waldameer is the closest thing I can compare to Euclid Beach (Never been to Kennywood or Knoebol's). After a day at Waldameer you always go home feeling refreshed and happier than when you came. At Six Flags Worlds of Adventure you don't.
Plain and simple, amusment parks were originated as places to escape from the pressures of real life. And at some (CP, SFGam, Waldameer) you still can. But this is where SFWOA is failing.
(p.s. Parking at Waldameer is FREE!) :)
Talking about the lake I believe the park should clean it and not have to wait for some environmental agency to clean it. Should I let my backyard grow and fill it with crap and expect some enviromental agancy to clean it. Or should I have the common sense to clean up after myself.
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"Ooo. They have the Internet on computers now."
-Homer Simpson
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"Ooo. They have the Internet on computers now."
-Homer Simpson
Scotty: It would be helpful on the eyes if you edited your post to break it up into paragraphs.
Regarding the park's crowded midways and layout, I think that can be attributed strictly to the merger between the parks and the slow sprawl. On the Geauga Lake side, they kept pushing around the lake adding more attractions in that direction. If they moved the flume and a few other minor buildings they could correct this. However, that leaves the problem between Batman and the rapids ride. That's the link between the sides, and there's no way of making it wider short of building a boardwalk on the lake side of Batman.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow: http://www.sillynonsense.com/subdivision/
Regarding the park's crowded midways and layout, I think that can be attributed strictly to the merger between the parks and the slow sprawl. On the Geauga Lake side, they kept pushing around the lake adding more attractions in that direction. If they moved the flume and a few other minor buildings they could correct this. However, that leaves the problem between Batman and the rapids ride. That's the link between the sides, and there's no way of making it wider short of building a boardwalk on the lake side of Batman.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow: http://www.sillynonsense.com/subdivision/
I have known Scotty/Old Timer for about 18 years now and I can vouch for him that he is a true fan of the parks, SFWOA in particularly. I personally haven't gone back to SF after my experiences last year. Yes the park has great rides, but it takes more than great rides to make it worth my money.
I want the whole experience to be great. Including the look/upkeep of the park, and especially the employee quality. Now I do not expect to have the same quality employee as WDW or CP, as they recruit from around the world and choose the best. SFWOA can't do that, being more regional than other parks. However, my experience with some SFWOA employees has been awful. Horrible service, rudeness, plain ignoring of the customer so they could have a chit chat, bad attitudes, etc. Now most employees there are pretty good, if not great, but the few bad apples really stick out here. In other parks, they would deal with that problem swiftly. At WDW or CP, they treat everyone like it is their one and only time that they will be in the park. Making it a special occasion for all. I really like that. Being treated well and respected goes a long way in my book.
And as for OldTimer bashing college kids...I dont think he was knocking college kids as in they are all bad. I think he was trying to say that many need the guidance/tutoring of seasoned veterans in the Theme/Amusement park way of life. What a better way to learn? If you throw a green kid out there fresh out of college, he can apply his book knowledge, but the real knowledge is learned by doing it, and from the training you recieve from those who are already there.
I want the whole experience to be great. Including the look/upkeep of the park, and especially the employee quality. Now I do not expect to have the same quality employee as WDW or CP, as they recruit from around the world and choose the best. SFWOA can't do that, being more regional than other parks. However, my experience with some SFWOA employees has been awful. Horrible service, rudeness, plain ignoring of the customer so they could have a chit chat, bad attitudes, etc. Now most employees there are pretty good, if not great, but the few bad apples really stick out here. In other parks, they would deal with that problem swiftly. At WDW or CP, they treat everyone like it is their one and only time that they will be in the park. Making it a special occasion for all. I really like that. Being treated well and respected goes a long way in my book.
And as for OldTimer bashing college kids...I dont think he was knocking college kids as in they are all bad. I think he was trying to say that many need the guidance/tutoring of seasoned veterans in the Theme/Amusement park way of life. What a better way to learn? If you throw a green kid out there fresh out of college, he can apply his book knowledge, but the real knowledge is learned by doing it, and from the training you recieve from those who are already there.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thought of volunteering or getting paid to clean up the grafitti and repaint the rides at their local Six Flags. I've often thought of doing that with Six Flags America. Certainly the local coaster club could get many people together to do this. I'll have to bring this up at the Coaster Zombie invasion of SFA.
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Batwing-Bow Down
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Batwing-Bow Down
To the people who want Scotty to just go to a new park that is hard for him to do. This is where he grew up, this park is a part of him. Try telling a fan of a sports team that is not what it once was(Bengals, Bears, etc) to switch teams. The fan can't do it. The team is in their blood and in their soul. This is the same way with Scotty and SF WoA.
People try to look for constants in life. When something they thought would be one way for their whole life is changed, it hurts, and I understand how Scotty feels.
People try to look for constants in life. When something they thought would be one way for their whole life is changed, it hurts, and I understand how Scotty feels.
I think the park could redesign the entrance way. If they are looking to attract large crowds the entrance way is just so small and cramped.
Anyone know what capacity is for the park?
I have always thought that CP had the right idea with their water attractions. All in the same area. If it's hot you know where everyone will be.
Helps diversify the park.
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BMCOASTER
bmcoaster@wi.rr.com
Anyone know what capacity is for the park?
I have always thought that CP had the right idea with their water attractions. All in the same area. If it's hot you know where everyone will be.
Helps diversify the park.
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BMCOASTER
bmcoaster@wi.rr.com
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