CP is being cheep
OK, let me simplify. Cedar Point has no reason to spend money when they are, and will continue to, make money. They're not going to throw that money away. Operating a shuttle from Express to the park doesn't do anything to help the bottom line.
And comparing to PKI isn't the same either. Their tram routes are well connected to the park, and don't have to share a two lane (each way) road with 10,000 cars every morning.
If you stay at Express because it's a Cedar Fair property, it's the wrong reason. Ditto for Radisson. If you stay at these properties you do so because it's closer than the rest of the hotels.
And honestly, if you're going to be cheap about your vacation, just stay home.
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Jeff (who apparently has a very different idea about what going on vacation means in relation to the cash spent)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
And comparing to PKI isn't the same either. Their tram routes are well connected to the park, and don't have to share a two lane (each way) road with 10,000 cars every morning.
If you stay at Express because it's a Cedar Fair property, it's the wrong reason. Ditto for Radisson. If you stay at these properties you do so because it's closer than the rest of the hotels.
And honestly, if you're going to be cheap about your vacation, just stay home.
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Jeff (who apparently has a very different idea about what going on vacation means in relation to the cash spent)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Jeff,
I would hardly call the Radisson cheap. Also, enhancing customer service is very rarely a waste of money. It's what keeps a customer happy and happy customers are repeat customers and repeat customers are what every business desires. I just don't see how anyone can argue against improved customer service.
I would hardly call the Radisson cheap. Also, enhancing customer service is very rarely a waste of money. It's what keeps a customer happy and happy customers are repeat customers and repeat customers are what every business desires. I just don't see how anyone can argue against improved customer service.
You really have a terrible attitude about alot of things Jeff. Not everyone has money to take expensive vacations, and you should know that. You act like your words are gospel and everyone on this site is just supposed to bow to you. You said you were 28 right? Maybe you should act your age. I know being 28 I try to be pretty open minded to many situations. You don't seem to be that way. Are you really that better than anyone? Sometimes you act like you are. You can't handle it when people have legitimate complaints against your favorite park, so you act like a 10 year old and say some cocky comment. All I am saying is maybe you should be more open minded, and stop being so selfish.
slithernoggin said:
"Koaster King, take a good look at the surrounding area the next time you're in Sandusky. I suspect you may be underestimating the sort of project you're suggesting."
I thought that the plan I suggested had been brought up before(in "CP has a space problem" threads) and that there was actually an area they could build a large parking lot at inland. If there isn't sorry I brought that up. Actually it would be fairly simple for the Radisson resort stayers. Have them take a ferry to CP from the resort(in they don't already). That's where their transportation comes in. As a side question, is there any waterway to get to CP from behind BE? They could get ferries too then.
I don't know much about the entire city of Sandusky, but my parents think it is one of the most poorly situated amusement park they've even been to. We come from the south up 75 to get to CP, but they think it's ridiculous that you have to pass through that much "town" to get to CP and there isn't a major highway to get you there. I think we made more turns to get there 4 hours away than an entire 16 hour driving trip to Florida...and back!
"Where would all these ferries dock at? How would they get to Cedar Point? Where would they drop guests off at? Where would these trams go to?"
I think Dutchman answered this well.
"It makes far more sense to reimburse guests for parking at the Point in their own cars. Cost effective, no trams to maintain, no employees to pay or insure... Frankly, I'm surprised CP did not do this for OmahaCPfan."
Absolutely, I agree. But they didn't give us back money either. They said we can have free parking if we stayed "at our wonderful, luxurious Hotel Breakers Resort" and mentioned Sandcastle Suites and the camping village and all that. "You can even walk to the park from there". So, that's where we stayed this year.
"Other parks, such as Kings Island, have convenient access between accommodations and the park. Cedar Point has to share access with guests on the Causeway or at the marina."
Then why can't CP since it's such a "world class" amusement park and supposedly the "best" anywhere? Another reason I don't believe CP is the end-all park. And there's a lot more where that came from.
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Dannylicious, "I don't think they can handle this!"
"Koaster King, take a good look at the surrounding area the next time you're in Sandusky. I suspect you may be underestimating the sort of project you're suggesting."
I thought that the plan I suggested had been brought up before(in "CP has a space problem" threads) and that there was actually an area they could build a large parking lot at inland. If there isn't sorry I brought that up. Actually it would be fairly simple for the Radisson resort stayers. Have them take a ferry to CP from the resort(in they don't already). That's where their transportation comes in. As a side question, is there any waterway to get to CP from behind BE? They could get ferries too then.
I don't know much about the entire city of Sandusky, but my parents think it is one of the most poorly situated amusement park they've even been to. We come from the south up 75 to get to CP, but they think it's ridiculous that you have to pass through that much "town" to get to CP and there isn't a major highway to get you there. I think we made more turns to get there 4 hours away than an entire 16 hour driving trip to Florida...and back!
"Where would all these ferries dock at? How would they get to Cedar Point? Where would they drop guests off at? Where would these trams go to?"
I think Dutchman answered this well.
"It makes far more sense to reimburse guests for parking at the Point in their own cars. Cost effective, no trams to maintain, no employees to pay or insure... Frankly, I'm surprised CP did not do this for OmahaCPfan."
Absolutely, I agree. But they didn't give us back money either. They said we can have free parking if we stayed "at our wonderful, luxurious Hotel Breakers Resort" and mentioned Sandcastle Suites and the camping village and all that. "You can even walk to the park from there". So, that's where we stayed this year.
"Other parks, such as Kings Island, have convenient access between accommodations and the park. Cedar Point has to share access with guests on the Causeway or at the marina."
Then why can't CP since it's such a "world class" amusement park and supposedly the "best" anywhere? Another reason I don't believe CP is the end-all park. And there's a lot more where that came from.
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Dannylicious, "I don't think they can handle this!"
Jeff says:
And honestly, if you're going to be cheap about your vacation, just stay home.
Well, let's take solace in the fact that CP doesn't feel that way. If they did, then why would they build Breakers Express, why would they give us the campgrounds, and why would they offer discounts. Because CP needs people who are cheap. Consider this quote from Richard Kinzel from an article dated July 2,
"``In spite of improved weather over the past several weeks, attendance has remained somewhat soft and below our expectations for this season,'' said Kinzel. ``Excluding results from our two newest properties, combined attendance through the first six months of the year is down 4% from 2000,... "
Maybe improved customer service would help this problem.
And honestly, if you're going to be cheap about your vacation, just stay home.
Well, let's take solace in the fact that CP doesn't feel that way. If they did, then why would they build Breakers Express, why would they give us the campgrounds, and why would they offer discounts. Because CP needs people who are cheap. Consider this quote from Richard Kinzel from an article dated July 2,
"``In spite of improved weather over the past several weeks, attendance has remained somewhat soft and below our expectations for this season,'' said Kinzel. ``Excluding results from our two newest properties, combined attendance through the first six months of the year is down 4% from 2000,... "
Maybe improved customer service would help this problem.
Something else to consider...
Cedar Point does have a system for reimbursing parking fees, but it typically does not involve a prepaid parking voucher...
Typically, you pay your parking, and then if you are a registered guest at the hotel or camper village, or if you eat at the restaurants outside the park and spend more than $$, you present your parking ticket and get a discount or rebate on that. The Radisson and Breakers Express are located off the peninsula, and it is very possible that they operate on the same model as the other hotels...except that in this case, you would not have a parking stub at check-in. Is it possible that the parking stub is good for a rebate at the Breakers Express...that is, they won't pre-pay your parking, but perhaps they will refund your parking if you return to the hotel after your day in the park?
That would, of course, be pretty restrictive, since getting a parking refund also means you lose your parking return pass...
Oh, and Coaster Fantom...This is Jeff's web site, and he can have whatever kind of attitude he wants here. Don't like it? Get your own show, then you can be the resident pain-in-the-@$$. Around here, that's Jeff's perogative, and the rest of us don't have to like it...but he's the one writing the code and paying the bills.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/20/2001. ***
Cedar Point does have a system for reimbursing parking fees, but it typically does not involve a prepaid parking voucher...
Typically, you pay your parking, and then if you are a registered guest at the hotel or camper village, or if you eat at the restaurants outside the park and spend more than $$, you present your parking ticket and get a discount or rebate on that. The Radisson and Breakers Express are located off the peninsula, and it is very possible that they operate on the same model as the other hotels...except that in this case, you would not have a parking stub at check-in. Is it possible that the parking stub is good for a rebate at the Breakers Express...that is, they won't pre-pay your parking, but perhaps they will refund your parking if you return to the hotel after your day in the park?
That would, of course, be pretty restrictive, since getting a parking refund also means you lose your parking return pass...
Oh, and Coaster Fantom...This is Jeff's web site, and he can have whatever kind of attitude he wants here. Don't like it? Get your own show, then you can be the resident pain-in-the-@$$. Around here, that's Jeff's perogative, and the rest of us don't have to like it...but he's the one writing the code and paying the bills.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/20/2001. ***
Ugh... you're really missing the point now. Let me simplify even more:
The hotels are booked at or near 100% most of the season. "Enhancing customer service" with something that clearly people are getting along without is like giving money away. Cedar Point isn't a charity. Breakers Express and the camp ground aren't there to rope in "cheep" people, they're there to make more money.
Of course attendance is down in the two months of the season. Between crappy weather in May, the lack of a new attraction and actual competition, there's going to be a short-term impact. If you've been there so far in July, you know it was short-lived since we've barely had a drop of rain this month.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
The hotels are booked at or near 100% most of the season. "Enhancing customer service" with something that clearly people are getting along without is like giving money away. Cedar Point isn't a charity. Breakers Express and the camp ground aren't there to rope in "cheep" people, they're there to make more money.
Of course attendance is down in the two months of the season. Between crappy weather in May, the lack of a new attraction and actual competition, there's going to be a short-term impact. If you've been there so far in July, you know it was short-lived since we've barely had a drop of rain this month.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
I really feel this topic is much to do about nothing. Sure it would be nice if they offered free shuttles from the Radisson and Breakers Express. But its not like CP is misrepresenting anything about their services. When I went to CP for the first time last year, I was told when booking that only the on-peninsula properties had free parking and shuttle service. Because of that, I decided to pay more money to stay at an on-peninsula hotel. That was my choice- just like the person who decides to stay at an on-property hotel at Disney for the same reason rather than staying at a cheaper off-price hotel which may or may not have a courtesy shuttle (but no access to Disney's transportation system). This is really just an issue of what you are willing to spend and getting the facts about what exactly you are spending your money on. I really don't feel CP or Disney or any other place one goes on vacation owes you more than what you bargained for. It's the consumer that should know what he or she is paying for. Now I understand that not everyone may be able to afford an on-site property but thats just capitalism.
To compare it with another recent thread- the situation is different from that at SFWoa. There the rules were changed in midstream. SFWoa pushed season passes at the beginning of the season (as is their right). But then, they changed their pricing policy allowing people to spend an extra 10$ for fast pass-- thus impacting people paying for a season pass by restricting their access to the rides at the expense of the fast pass customers. A person buying a season pass had no way of knowing that the fast pass policy would be implemented later in the season. That affects what they bargained for. It would be the equivalent of CP telling people that there was shuttle service to off-site properties and then canceling the service midway through the season. That I would think would be a valid beef.
To compare it with another recent thread- the situation is different from that at SFWoa. There the rules were changed in midstream. SFWoa pushed season passes at the beginning of the season (as is their right). But then, they changed their pricing policy allowing people to spend an extra 10$ for fast pass-- thus impacting people paying for a season pass by restricting their access to the rides at the expense of the fast pass customers. A person buying a season pass had no way of knowing that the fast pass policy would be implemented later in the season. That affects what they bargained for. It would be the equivalent of CP telling people that there was shuttle service to off-site properties and then canceling the service midway through the season. That I would think would be a valid beef.
Koaster King said:
"Where would all these ferries dock at? How would they get to Cedar Point? Where would they drop guests off at? Where would these trams go to?"
I think Dutchman answered this well.
Well, not really. Docking at the marina is fine if you're run a few boats an hour.
But you proposed that Cedar Point build a parking lot on the mainland and transport guests via tram and ferry to the park. That greatly increases the number of ferries and trams that would be needed. You can't run that many ferries into the marina and still have a profitable marina operation.
Jeff is absolutely correct. With resorts booked at or near capacity, they obviously are attracting people, most of whom are satisfied with the matter. Yes, it would be great customer service if CP ran shuttles out to the mainland resorts. It would be even better customer service if CP ran shuttles to all area hotels to pick up park guests. Of course, even better customer service that that would involve CP sending a limo to my home when I want to go to the park. :) But CP, like any other business has to find the point between extending customer service and the costs involved in same that they want to be at in terms of return. CP, apparently, has looked at this and determined that most ---no, not all, but most --- of their guests will be satisfied with driving to the park from BE or the Radisson.
If you find that unsatisfactory, you can: complain to the park; stay at non-CP properties; choose a park with a better transit situation.
Jeff, that comment about staying home rather being "cheap" on a vacation is a bit caustic. I simply can't afford the rates at the Breakers or the Radisson.
The Island Rocket ferry boat, http://www.islandrocket.com/ , offers service from the Cedar Point pier in Sandusky to the Cedar Point Marina, and also to the Lake Erie islands. Cedar Point used to operate a boat recently, called the Harbor Belle, that ran from the CP Marina to the Radisson. I heard it was discontinued because of low water levels by the Radisson. You can see the boat sitting on a cradle in the parking lot by the marina boat service building.
*** This post was edited by Pete on 7/20/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Pete on 7/20/2001. ***
*** This post was edited by Pete on 7/20/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Pete on 7/20/2001. ***
If you found that offensive, then I do apologize. I guess what I really mean is that you get what you pay for.
slithernoggin said:
"Jeff, that comment about staying home rather being "cheap" on a vacation is a bit caustic."
And thanks, Dave, for acknowledging my "status." Is it that obvious that real-life has me a bit stressed?
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Jeff (who will probably be a lot happier, less grumpy and generally more pleasant by September, once the crap has stopped rolling down hill)
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Jeff, thanks for the apology. Now that I see where you were coming from with the comment it does make more sense and doesn't seem quite as caustic. I don't pay much for the Rodeway, and I don't get much (in fact I take my own towels... I think you can read through their towels, as thin as they are), but it is convenient and cheap.
Jeff said:
"Breakers Express has 350 rooms, and they're generally booked solid the bulk of the season. All of those guests, three or four per room, all want to go to the park at 9 a.m. That's a lot of vehicles to service them quickly."
I’d like to see the hotel where everyone is going to the same place and leaves at the exact same time! Maybe some of them are going at 10. Maybe some aren’t going until the evening. Maybe some will be checking out that morning. Maybe some went to the park the day before and are going sightseeing elsewhere. Not every single guest on any day is going to the park, let alone at the exact same time. So what if you have to wait ten minutes until the next bus. I’m sure many guest would be willing to wait. Besides, they always have the option to drive themselves if they’re in that big of a hurry.
RideMan said:
"10,000 cars go down the Causeway in the course of about four hours. Removing 350 cars from that group and replacing them with 70 shuttle buses would not make a significant difference in the traffic on the Causeway."
First, I think 70 shuttle buses is way too high. We’re only talking about two hotels. Second, it’s not just about reducing the traffic on the Causeway. Sure, whether they drive or take the shuttle, they’re going to have to sit in a bit of traffic. But, they won’t have to drive, they won’t have to pay to park, and they’ll be delivered right to the front gate. I’m willing to bet if a car and a shuttle left the hotel at the same time, the people on the bus would be in the park before the people in the car.
Jeff said:
"OK, let me simplify. Cedar Point has no reason to spend money when they are, and will continue to, make money. They're not going to throw that money away. Operating a shuttle from Express to the park doesn't do anything to help the bottom line."
Of course it doesn’t help the bottom line, but that doesn’t mean it’s a worthless service. Every other park I checked offered free shuttle service -- is it helping their bottom line? What about the hotels that aren’t owned by a park that also offer free shuttles? What about hotels that offer shuttles to and from the airport? Why don’t they just make their guests take a cab?
Offering a service to a guest isn’t always about how it will improve the bottom line. You think Holiday World is making money on the free soft drink promotion? Is Knott’s making any money by offering guests a free ride to Disneyland? No but, they still do it because it is a service the guests appreciate, and probably will make them more likely to come back.
Jeff said:
"If you found that offensive, then I do apologize. I guess what I really mean is that you get what you pay for."
Thanks for the clarification. I, too, was a bit taken aback by your previous comment.
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Aaron
RagingBull said:
I’d like to see the hotel where everyone is going to the same place and leaves at the exact same time! .
If you'd like to see, then try going to Breakers Express or the Radisson. It's not unreasonable to assume that the majority of guests will be heading to the park around opening time.
First, I think 70 shuttle buses is way too high. We’re only talking about two hotels.
Is it too high? That works out to just under 20 busses an hour. You seem to feel the busses should come along about every 10 minutes; in order to maintain that sort of timetable you would have to have a fair number of busses on the road; plus, drivers will need breaks to refuel, rest, go to the bathroom, deal with problematic passengers...
Of course it doesn’t help the bottom line, but that doesn’t mean it’s a worthless service. Every other park I checked offered free shuttle service -- is it helping their bottom line?
And no one here has said it is a worthless service. You're the only who says that. Every other park is not Cedar Point. Every other park would not be trying to transport people via bus over a two-lane road the represents the only viable access to the park. It's not like Cedar Fair execs, sitting around the boardroom, said, "Hey, let's flip a coin, heads they get to ride a bus, tails they gotta drive themselves!" CF looked at it, studied it, made their decision. You can rail all you want about how terrible it is; fact is, CP fills these parks to the brim. They don't force anyone to stay at a CP Resort, people choose to do so.
Offering a service to a guest isn’t always about how it will improve the bottom line. You think Holiday World is making money on the free soft drink promotion?
No, but you can bet they've added the cost of syrup, etc. into the gate admission. By charging everyone who walks through the gates for soda, whether they drink any or not, they make just as much, and perhaps even more, money.
*** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 7/20/2001. ***
Frankly, I really don't care whether or not CP offers shuttles or even refunds at their resorts. We're not cheap, but I was trying to help out the ones who were concerned with it. By point for the last couple of posts were, don't you think they should have easier access into the park from the Causeway? I mean, Jeff, do you actually know the Disney resorts and how their transportation, etc. really work?
What my resorts had over Breakers Express at Disney?
-free transportation from 6:30 AM to 2:30AM to 10+ parks/attractions where you can also go visit, eat, and look around at any of their other 20+ resorts with each bus for each attraction come every 20 minutes or less(look at how much gas, shuttles, and workers, which they change several times a day, that takes), meaning there's about 100+ buses running at any given time
-2 gift shops
-an arcade
-1 full service restaurant
-around 7 counter service restaurants and food court
-3 themed pools
-lakeside views and beaches
...all for $144 a night. That's even a lot compared to the Hotel Breakers.
I agree that there really isn't anything to complain about, but still. If this place can do all that, CP could do at least 1/4 of that. Which would be about 25 buses. But I still think that's too much for them. How about even 10 buses or even less each going back and forth in the morning from 9-11. They.....
Ok, nevermind. I'm done. We'll agree to disagree.
Just a refund at least. Obviously, you guys are going to defend "your" park to the death and there's no way what any of the rest of as are trying to say with pass through.
And again, who cares if Breakers Express is booked solid?!?! Even the smallest Disney Resort 50% full would have more guests. Whew! Glad that's settled.
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Danny, who knows he's right. ;)
*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 7/20/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 7/20/2001. ***
What my resorts had over Breakers Express at Disney?
-free transportation from 6:30 AM to 2:30AM to 10+ parks/attractions where you can also go visit, eat, and look around at any of their other 20+ resorts with each bus for each attraction come every 20 minutes or less(look at how much gas, shuttles, and workers, which they change several times a day, that takes), meaning there's about 100+ buses running at any given time
-2 gift shops
-an arcade
-1 full service restaurant
-around 7 counter service restaurants and food court
-3 themed pools
-lakeside views and beaches
...all for $144 a night. That's even a lot compared to the Hotel Breakers.
I agree that there really isn't anything to complain about, but still. If this place can do all that, CP could do at least 1/4 of that. Which would be about 25 buses. But I still think that's too much for them. How about even 10 buses or even less each going back and forth in the morning from 9-11. They.....
Ok, nevermind. I'm done. We'll agree to disagree.
Just a refund at least. Obviously, you guys are going to defend "your" park to the death and there's no way what any of the rest of as are trying to say with pass through.
And again, who cares if Breakers Express is booked solid?!?! Even the smallest Disney Resort 50% full would have more guests. Whew! Glad that's settled.
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Danny, who knows he's right. ;)
*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 7/20/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 7/20/2001. ***
Well, I suppose Cedar Fair cares if the Breakers Express is booked solid. What's the point of comparing it to the smallest Disney resort? It's all very nice that your Disney resort had lots of transportation options, restaurants and attractions. It's not at Cedar Point, so what it has is really meaningless to what's being discussed here, I think.
The point at least I'm trying to make by pointing out that Breakers Express is booked solid is, despite the lack of buses or trams or boats to convey people to the point, the hotel is still nearly full. You seem to be saying CP 'needs' to do this or should be able to do this because this park or that park does it. If the hotel is full already, adding a bus service isn't going to increase the number of guests-- so why do it?
The point at least I'm trying to make by pointing out that Breakers Express is booked solid is, despite the lack of buses or trams or boats to convey people to the point, the hotel is still nearly full. You seem to be saying CP 'needs' to do this or should be able to do this because this park or that park does it. If the hotel is full already, adding a bus service isn't going to increase the number of guests-- so why do it?
slithernoggin said:
" It's not unreasonable to assume that the majority of guests will be heading to the park around opening time.
No, it’s not, but you’re making my point for me by using words like “majority” and “around.” What I was saying is that not every single person is going to the park, and all of the ones that are will not be leaving at the exact same instant. Some will leave at 8:45, some at 9:00, some at 9:15, and so on.
slithernoggin said:
”Is it too high?”
Uh, yeah. 70 is most certainly ridiculous for two hotels. Call Hershey and see how many they have between their hotels and campground. I bet it’s a lot less than 70.
slithernoggin said:
”By charging everyone who walks through the gates for soda, whether they drink any or not, they make just as much, and perhaps even more, money.”
Well, let’s examine that. My wife and I went to HW two weeks ago, and I’d say we had about 10 drinks each. Now, if they charged, say, $2.00 per drink instead of giving them away, that would be $20 we each would’ve paid. You think they raised the admission price by $20? Didn’t think so. I think they raised admission by only a couple of bucks, which would cover about one drink per guest.
slithernoggin said:
" If the hotel is full already, adding a bus service isn't going to increase the number of guests-- so why do it?"
No one is saying that it is going to increase the number of guests -- obviously, they’re doing quite well without it. But why add extra benches in the park? Why add an extra garbage can here or there? Those aren’t going to bring more people in, but they still do it. And what about all of those other parks that do provide a shuttle service. All of these parks are quite busy and have large numbers of guests staying at their properties. So why do they do it? Because they can? Because they don’t have a causeway to deal with? I think not.
Look, I’m not saying that CP is bad for not having a shuttle, and I know their situation with the narrow causeway is unique. I just don’t think using the causeway as an excuse is valid. All of those cars can drive over, why can’t a few buses?
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Aaron
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