CP is being cheep
Why do you need shuttle service when Breakers Express is a half mile a way from the causeway and parking fees can be refunded.
I think shuttle service from Breakers/Camper Village/Sandcastle Suites is a great idea. Many people who stay at the hotels(on Point)like to enter the front or Marina Gate. Since you can't park at the Marina. It is a simply solution to get the resorts guest cars out of the main parking which thens creates ore parking space plus it helps with traffic jams.
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Andrew Hyde
http://www.experiencethepoint.com
*** This post was edited by Andrew on 7/18/2001. ***
I think shuttle service from Breakers/Camper Village/Sandcastle Suites is a great idea. Many people who stay at the hotels(on Point)like to enter the front or Marina Gate. Since you can't park at the Marina. It is a simply solution to get the resorts guest cars out of the main parking which thens creates ore parking space plus it helps with traffic jams.
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Andrew Hyde
http://www.experiencethepoint.com
*** This post was edited by Andrew on 7/18/2001. ***
Well, that just settles it. CP needs the Monorail to travel from the ticket area to the front of Breakers over the water, and then onto their new parking lot, where ever that will be.
Noone drives once they reach Disney. At one point they wanted to build a monorail to the Orlando airport, but never did.
Noone drives once they stay in an IOA hotel, although the walk from PB is far, they have shuttle busses and a boat.
Guests staying at the hotels near SWF have shuttle busses, and they're not even official properties, same with IOA, although they do run slow.
Guests get spoiled with not having to drive once they reach a resort hotel, that's why some people are bummed about having to get in their car and drive.
The traffic at CP is too much for shuttle busses to run back and forth.
Can't wait to ride that new Monorail.
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Robin Fox - "I see Stars, Can You See Them Too?"
Noone drives once they reach Disney. At one point they wanted to build a monorail to the Orlando airport, but never did.
Noone drives once they stay in an IOA hotel, although the walk from PB is far, they have shuttle busses and a boat.
Guests staying at the hotels near SWF have shuttle busses, and they're not even official properties, same with IOA, although they do run slow.
Guests get spoiled with not having to drive once they reach a resort hotel, that's why some people are bummed about having to get in their car and drive.
The traffic at CP is too much for shuttle busses to run back and forth.
Can't wait to ride that new Monorail.
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Robin Fox - "I see Stars, Can You See Them Too?"
Jeff said:
"Seriously though, you can't cart around hundreds of people back and forth inexpensively. Do you realize how many people are in that hotel when it's full? Now think about how they all want to go at 9 a.m."
Accually, it wouldn't be too hard. Look at Orlando. From the airport where 1000s of people come and go every day, they have shuttles to hotels, resorts, theme parks, even cruise ships! It wouldn't be too hard for CP to have two coach buses go back and forth in the morning and evening, and a few large vans durring the rest of the day.
In Orlando, Disney and Carnival Cruise Lines manage to cart 2000+ people back and forth a few times per week to Port Canaveral, and I doubt it would be too hard for CP to do the same kind of thing. I think it would be much easier accually, because the distance is a lot shorter.
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6 Days left.
You're comparing apples to oranges with the Orlando parks. As one of you mentioned, there are dozens of resorts there, so it's a lot more cost effective to run a fleet of vehicles.
Breakers Express has 350 rooms, and they're generally booked solid the bulk of the season. All of those guests, three or four per room, all want to go to the park at 9 a.m. That's a lot of vehicles to service them quickly. Then they sit idle the rest of the day as people trickle back to the hotel through the day. That's a lot of expense.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Breakers Express has 350 rooms, and they're generally booked solid the bulk of the season. All of those guests, three or four per room, all want to go to the park at 9 a.m. That's a lot of vehicles to service them quickly. Then they sit idle the rest of the day as people trickle back to the hotel through the day. That's a lot of expense.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Jeff said:
"You're comparing apples to oranges with the Orlando parks. As one of you mentioned, there are dozens of resorts there, so it's a lot more cost effective to run a fleet of vehicles.
Breakers Express has 350 rooms, and they're generally booked solid the bulk of the season. All of those guests, three or four per room, all want to go to the park at 9 a.m. That's a lot of vehicles to service them quickly. Then they sit idle the rest of the day as people trickle back to the hotel through the day. That's a lot of expense."
How can it be more cost effective for Disney and not CP? You're telling me there's not thousands of people trying to get in the Magic Kingdom as CP? Or did you think they weren't good enough for something like that? Obviously Disney would have to spend way more money for all of their services than CP would. Why couldn't they just have 2 or 3 shuttles go back and forth all day? Maybe run 5 in the morning from 8:30 to 10:30 and then the last two hours at night and then have 2 be on call for the rest of the day. You just press a button on the phone and they come pick you up. It's not a big deal. Look at Disney. Nearly 30 serviced resorts. At least 4 buses(for MK, Epcot, MGM, and AK not counting those to Downtown Disney, the three waterparks, and Wide World of Sports) run every 20 minutes. That's at least 120 buses running from 9AM to 9PM. And Cedar Point can't get three to five?...
I don't believe you have a good arguement about rooms either when the resort I stayed at last week had over 2,000 rooms alone. As a matter of fact, their smallest "resort" is The Disney Institute which is a "special activites" resort has 587 rooms. That's mainly a private resort and costs a lot to go to this. Their largest resort so far has over 6,000 rooms, The All Star Resort. And yeah, I'm sure most of the rooms are filled with singles and couples. Riiiight.
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...Danny "Stossel", Give Me a Break! *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 7/19/2001. ***
I think it is more of a business decision than anything else. Why pay to purchase, staff and Maintain up to 5 busses when you can actually make money by charging peeps to park! That is why Breakers express is around $100 cheaper than any on point room. Actually other hotels in the area do offer shuttles to the point, so you could try them. I just think that is the way they do business and since the place is filled up every night they aren't offering an extra service since Breakers Express popular and cheap. Especially compared to any on point room.
The place is not loosing that many customers because of a lack of shuttle service. Now if Disney Just lost the shuttle service, I feel it would make staying at a resort far less attractive since it is not as easy to get around.For real, other hotels in the area offer shuttles so if you don't like the way Breakers Express is handling their business, take yours elsewhere. :) *** This post was edited by Joe E. on 7/19/2001. ***
The place is not loosing that many customers because of a lack of shuttle service. Now if Disney Just lost the shuttle service, I feel it would make staying at a resort far less attractive since it is not as easy to get around.For real, other hotels in the area offer shuttles so if you don't like the way Breakers Express is handling their business, take yours elsewhere. :) *** This post was edited by Joe E. on 7/19/2001. ***
I agree that it is a better business decision, but besides the fact it is a Cedar Point Resort, what are the advantages of staying there? Comfort Inn is $20 cheaper and just around the corner. And if Disney DID drop their shuttle service, what would you say if someone said the same thing back to you. If you can be mad if Disney doesn't have shuttles, I can be mad if CP doesn't(I'm not really :)). But I'm just telling the truth about it. We got to anywhere in Disney in less than 7-10 minutes from our resort. It took that long to just get up the causeway from BE. I'm sure shuttles would help a nice percentage of that traffic.
10,000 cars go down the Causeway in the course of about four hours. Removing 350 cars from that group and replacing them with 70 shuttle buses would not make a significant difference in the traffic on the Causeway.
The only practical way to run shuttles from the Radisson and Breakers Express would be to build some form of grade-separated transit, meaning a ferry boat, bus lane, or rail system. Since the Breakers Express is located inland, a ferry wouldn't work real well there. Hmmm...I wonder if a hovercraft would be practical.....!
Remember, the traffic situation at Cedar Point is unique in that there are exactly three traffic lanes which must carry ALL land vehicle traffic to the peninsula. If you go to, say, the Disney compound down in Central Florida, there are more vehicle access points to the parks and more vehicle lanes than there are at Cedar Point. There are transportation tactics there that simply are not options for Cedar Point because of the lack of access lanes.
They could significantly reduce the delays at the tollbooth by dropping the parking fee to $5, $1, or $0, but unfortunately I don't see that happening.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
The only practical way to run shuttles from the Radisson and Breakers Express would be to build some form of grade-separated transit, meaning a ferry boat, bus lane, or rail system. Since the Breakers Express is located inland, a ferry wouldn't work real well there. Hmmm...I wonder if a hovercraft would be practical.....!
Remember, the traffic situation at Cedar Point is unique in that there are exactly three traffic lanes which must carry ALL land vehicle traffic to the peninsula. If you go to, say, the Disney compound down in Central Florida, there are more vehicle access points to the parks and more vehicle lanes than there are at Cedar Point. There are transportation tactics there that simply are not options for Cedar Point because of the lack of access lanes.
They could significantly reduce the delays at the tollbooth by dropping the parking fee to $5, $1, or $0, but unfortunately I don't see that happening.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Two buses to transport a thousand people in an hour? I hope you're not in a hurry.
TrBiggar said:
"Thats why they only would need 2 buses..."
Koaster King: You've illustrated my point exactly by describing the sheer scope of what Disney has. Having several parks and dozens of resorts, it makes sense to have a transportation system at Disney. When you factor in vehicles, mechanics, drivers, gas, etc. in the equation, having that large of an operation drives the cost per rider down. Not so with the relatively tiny Cedar Point operation.
And then there's the traffic thing Dave mentioned. Ever been on the causeway at 10 a.m.? It's amazing they get people in and parked as fast as they do.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Jeff's right here, comparing Disney and CP is comparing apples and oranges. At Disney, you have customers who want to go various places, to various places, at various times throughout the day, in a place that was designed with mass transit options in place. At CP, you have a customers who want to go one place, at the same time, and back at various times, at a place where the mass transit would have to use the same space as the cars, trucks, etc.
Think about this: would you really want to be on the causeway behind the 70 shuttle busses taking Radisson and BE guests to the park at 9am? All those busses, waiting patiently as cars trickle through the toll gates?
A monorail seems like a very expensive solution to a fairly small problem.
CP should refund parking charges to registered guests.
OmahaPCfan, did you raise this point with the hotel manager? The manager's in a far better position to assist you than anyone of the fine folks of Coasterbuzz.
Think about this: would you really want to be on the causeway behind the 70 shuttle busses taking Radisson and BE guests to the park at 9am? All those busses, waiting patiently as cars trickle through the toll gates?
A monorail seems like a very expensive solution to a fairly small problem.
CP should refund parking charges to registered guests.
OmahaPCfan, did you raise this point with the hotel manager? The manager's in a far better position to assist you than anyone of the fine folks of Coasterbuzz.
Yeah I agree with everyone that it is pretty cheap of the park to not even reimburse their guests that have to drive when staying at a CP property.
Raging Bull said, "As a way of comparison, I checked several other parks that offer guest lodging, whether it be hotel or campground. Out of Disney, Universal, Hershey, Six Flags Worlds of Adventure, King's Island, King's Dominion, and Holiday World, ALL of them provide a free shuttle from their lodging facilities to their park. In addition, Knott's Berry Farm even provides a free ride from their hotel to Disneyland!"
Another thing that I noticed is that alot of hotels around a park offer free shuttles, and aren't even part of the parks on-site hotels. Jeff your perceptions seem a little askewed at times. People weren't just talking about Disney. Although they are the best example. There are so many other parks that offer shuttles. To not be reimbursed for parking while staying at park hotel is just a straight up rip off. Whats it matter if it cuts into profits a bit? I think the customer service is far more important, but then again I guess CP isn't as service oriented as they like people to think. Plus Jeff you avoided responding about the fact that they don't even get free parking. I myself would rather drive to a park on my own, so I don't have to stay on their shuttle schedule, but If I was staying at a park property and didn't get free parking I would be quite upset. You can stay about 5 miles from CP still drive, and get about half off the price compared to CP properties. Which one would you stay at? It just proves the point that many people on here fail to see. CP is a good park, but so many other parks are far more service oriented than CP. Staying at a park hotel is part of the experience, but for some reason CP is forgetting about that with the properties off the peninsula. I guess it just helps to increase their profits. Sure CP has some great coasters, but coasters are only part of the total experience, and I think that is where CP lacks.
Raging Bull said, "As a way of comparison, I checked several other parks that offer guest lodging, whether it be hotel or campground. Out of Disney, Universal, Hershey, Six Flags Worlds of Adventure, King's Island, King's Dominion, and Holiday World, ALL of them provide a free shuttle from their lodging facilities to their park. In addition, Knott's Berry Farm even provides a free ride from their hotel to Disneyland!"
Another thing that I noticed is that alot of hotels around a park offer free shuttles, and aren't even part of the parks on-site hotels. Jeff your perceptions seem a little askewed at times. People weren't just talking about Disney. Although they are the best example. There are so many other parks that offer shuttles. To not be reimbursed for parking while staying at park hotel is just a straight up rip off. Whats it matter if it cuts into profits a bit? I think the customer service is far more important, but then again I guess CP isn't as service oriented as they like people to think. Plus Jeff you avoided responding about the fact that they don't even get free parking. I myself would rather drive to a park on my own, so I don't have to stay on their shuttle schedule, but If I was staying at a park property and didn't get free parking I would be quite upset. You can stay about 5 miles from CP still drive, and get about half off the price compared to CP properties. Which one would you stay at? It just proves the point that many people on here fail to see. CP is a good park, but so many other parks are far more service oriented than CP. Staying at a park hotel is part of the experience, but for some reason CP is forgetting about that with the properties off the peninsula. I guess it just helps to increase their profits. Sure CP has some great coasters, but coasters are only part of the total experience, and I think that is where CP lacks.
robvia said:
"Noone drives once they reach Disney."
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Robin Fox - "I see Stars, Can You See Them Too?""
Actually, that isn't true. Why? Because the bus transportation at the non-monorail hotels is sporadic at best. Try staying at All Stars and get the bus you want, when you want it. Most people end up driving their own cars to the parks, downtown Disney, etc.
There has been talk of expanding the monorail service but Disney resists this b/c it is expensive. If Disney thinks it is too expensive what do you think CP is going to say? *** This post was edited by wahoo skipper on 7/19/2001. ***
Jeff said:
"Two buses to transport a thousand people in an hour? I hope you're not in a hurry.
Koaster King: You've illustrated my point exactly by describing the sheer scope of what Disney has. Having several parks and dozens of resorts, it makes sense to have a transportation system at Disney. When you factor in vehicles, mechanics, drivers, gas, etc. in the equation, having that large of an operation drives the cost per rider down. Not so with the relatively tiny Cedar Point operation.
And then there's the traffic thing Dave mentioned. Ever been on the causeway at 10 a.m.? It's amazing they get people in and parked as fast as they do."
Oh, I get it Jeff. You're telling me that the real problem is that the way to get to CP(the Causeway) is not large enough to hold all of the transportation. Great idea! We should be complaining about the size of the Causeway! Duh. Why didn't I think about that?
But seriously, Disney was only an example and the best example I'm familiar with. Disney's transportation is part of staying at the Resort and a big draw for people coming there. Ever tried to get in Magic Kingdom at 10AM? Well it's fairly easy since once you get to the "Magic Kingdom" sign there's about 10 lanes to pay for parking and get into.
Again I ask, why should I stay at Breakers Express besides it's Cedar Point Resort? Is that all they need for people to come? We didn't go to CP until about 10:30 in the morning last year, but the traffic down the causeway was even blocking the 10+ cars trying to get out of BE. So, yes, the problem is indeed, the Causeway. I suggest CP to buy an area inland and make a parking lot there where trams and ferries will escort people up to the front that way they have even more space to expand in the front as well. For some reason I never enjoyed Raptor right at the front anyway. It's size makes it looks a little better, but I don't think the initial entrance looks good with it there. Oh well, its probobly just me.
And what's this about the "relatively small CP operation"? Is it not one of the top 3 if not the #1 park for seasonal numbers of guests per day? PKI or SFGAdv could possibly be larger. Anyways, you would think with their size and "service" they try to show, this would be part of it. Kings Island Inn and the camping area is a hop, skip, and a jump from PKI, but there is still tram service. Since getting into CP happens to be one of the longest lines of the park, you would think something would be done about it. But Mantis has been a 2 1/2 hour wait(for me) for 5 years and nothing has been done yet. Like maybe adding a sitdown train? That would be cool...
Koaster King, take a good look at the surrounding area the next time you're in Sandusky. I suspect you may be underestimating the sort of project you're suggesting.
Where would all these ferries dock at? How would they get to Cedar Point? Where would they drop guests off at? Where would these trams go to? How would they get there without tying up traffic for the residents? Where would CP find a lot large enough to hold thousands of cars, plus tram maintenance facilities, plus ticket booths, anywhere near CP without tearing up major parts of Sandusky?
I mean, sure, Cedar Fair could invest hundreds of millions, and many years, in building new docking facilities for dozens of ferries to transport guests, docking facilities to receive guests at the Point (because you just can't put tens of thousands of people through the marina and still have a marina for boating guests), build a road solely for tram traffic, and arrange it all so that city residents could still get around relatively easily... but why? How does that benefit Cedar Point's bottom line?
It makes far more sense to reimburse guests for parking at the Point in their own cars. Cost effective, no trams to maintain, no employees to pay or insure... Frankly, I'm surprised CP did not do this for OmahaCPfan. In the past, CP has reimbursed guests at Bay Harbor for parking, certainly seems like they'd do something for resort guests. I'd wonder if perhaps OmahaCPfan didn't have necessary identification as a guest at the toll booth, or wasn't aware of how to take advantage of the policy? And I hope OmahaCPfan either took the time to talk to the manager about it while at the resort, or has written since his/her visit.
When you say Disney's transportation is part of staying at the resort, that's very true in more ways than one. The Disney transit system is part of the plan; WDW is designed to accommodate mass transit options. Cedar Point is not. Other parks, such as Kings Island, have convenient access between accommodations and the park. Cedar Point has to share access with guests on the Causeway or at the marina. *** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 7/19/2001. ***
Where would all these ferries dock at? How would they get to Cedar Point? Where would they drop guests off at? Where would these trams go to? How would they get there without tying up traffic for the residents? Where would CP find a lot large enough to hold thousands of cars, plus tram maintenance facilities, plus ticket booths, anywhere near CP without tearing up major parts of Sandusky?
I mean, sure, Cedar Fair could invest hundreds of millions, and many years, in building new docking facilities for dozens of ferries to transport guests, docking facilities to receive guests at the Point (because you just can't put tens of thousands of people through the marina and still have a marina for boating guests), build a road solely for tram traffic, and arrange it all so that city residents could still get around relatively easily... but why? How does that benefit Cedar Point's bottom line?
It makes far more sense to reimburse guests for parking at the Point in their own cars. Cost effective, no trams to maintain, no employees to pay or insure... Frankly, I'm surprised CP did not do this for OmahaCPfan. In the past, CP has reimbursed guests at Bay Harbor for parking, certainly seems like they'd do something for resort guests. I'd wonder if perhaps OmahaCPfan didn't have necessary identification as a guest at the toll booth, or wasn't aware of how to take advantage of the policy? And I hope OmahaCPfan either took the time to talk to the manager about it while at the resort, or has written since his/her visit.
When you say Disney's transportation is part of staying at the resort, that's very true in more ways than one. The Disney transit system is part of the plan; WDW is designed to accommodate mass transit options. Cedar Point is not. Other parks, such as Kings Island, have convenient access between accommodations and the park. Cedar Point has to share access with guests on the Causeway or at the marina. *** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 7/19/2001. ***
Okay, like I said earlier, CP for nearly a century ran a ferry service from a dock in Sandusky proper over to the Point, the last docking facility being directly opposite of the Marina Gate. From the early sixties until sometime in the last ten years two ferries made frequent trips to and from the Point.
I'm not sure of the status of the Sandusky terminal, but docking at the Marina would not be much of a problem, unless some really serious remodeling has been there.
Some of the reasons why the previous ferry service was discontinued were (1) declining patronage and (2)increased operating expenses. Now a ferry service linking the hotels would certainly fill a need, but the second reason comes into play. You can not use college summer help to operate the ferries. They are passenger carrying vessels under the jurisdiction of the United States Coast Guard. The crews and vessels must be certified by them. They don't come cheap.
Some sort of dedicated transit lane adjoining the existing traffic lanes would make more economic sense.
I'm not sure of the status of the Sandusky terminal, but docking at the Marina would not be much of a problem, unless some really serious remodeling has been there.
Some of the reasons why the previous ferry service was discontinued were (1) declining patronage and (2)increased operating expenses. Now a ferry service linking the hotels would certainly fill a need, but the second reason comes into play. You can not use college summer help to operate the ferries. They are passenger carrying vessels under the jurisdiction of the United States Coast Guard. The crews and vessels must be certified by them. They don't come cheap.
Some sort of dedicated transit lane adjoining the existing traffic lanes would make more economic sense.
Kings Island Campground has over 300 sites and yet they manage ok with their shuttle service. I believe it is possible for CP to offer some type of shuttle service for it's off site hotel guests. I know that the inn right across from the Radison offers a shuttle service. The offsite hotels could also offer it's guests the following options:
1.) free parking pass for guests that arrive at the hotel before parking. or
2) Reimbursement of parking fee. If the campground and Breakers and Sandcastle suites can do this, so can the other hotels.
I'm not bashing CP here, just offering suggestions that have worked successfully elsewhere.
1.) free parking pass for guests that arrive at the hotel before parking. or
2) Reimbursement of parking fee. If the campground and Breakers and Sandcastle suites can do this, so can the other hotels.
I'm not bashing CP here, just offering suggestions that have worked successfully elsewhere.
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