Aerosmith removed from roller coaster preshow at Disney's Hollywood Studios

Shirley Manson hates beach balls.

Jeff:

...but they're so obvious when the lighting cues hit so perfectly with the percussion.

Perfectly timed cues doesn't necessarily mean timecode is being used with a band. If that band has their own tour LD, they should be able to run the console so well that you cannot tell the difference. I have run a console for bands and DJs before that you would have thought was timecoded simply because I knew the music well enough that I could nail cues with percussion hits. If all done correctly, you almost feel as if you are performing along with the group on stage. I miss those days.

I'm with her on the beach ball thing. With how expensive shows are now, get that **** out of my line of sight.

I understand if it's the Beach Boys or some yacht rock crap, but nothing that I attend should include a beach ball.

Same goes for "the wave" at sporting events.

Get off my lawn.

Lord Gonchar:

This is 99% of music.

I think that's vastly over-simplifying things. Garbage is an outlier in a lot of ways because, as you said, they're a studio project that accidentally tours. Of course they track a lot of the "noise" because it's not really stuff one can "play." But if they were faking it, they wouldn't have always toured with a bassist. They don't need to play keyboards live either, but they do anyway. "Stupid Girl" hasn't been played like it is on the record maybe ever, and "Wicked Ways" is often mixed with "Personal Jesus" by Depeche Mode.

I don't object to the use of technology, and I'm not sure how we started down that road. Where I was going is that the quality of the art has a lot to do with intent. A lot of pop is notoriously intended to be product, so they assemble a team of writers, sometimes dozens of them, to come up with something that will sell, however ephemeral it may be. Is it still art? I don't know, but it sure as hell isn't Carmina Burana. People who create art for art's sake are definitely entitled to make a living from that, but I think the intent changes the authenticity of it all. People have likely already forgotten about "Call Me Maybe" but still talk about the Beatles.

Oof. So much to unpack in those last two sentences. The Beatles made it huge by writing pop songs. Sure, their writing evolved and arguably improved with age and drugs, but they were a pop act from the start. And I'm not sure I agree that anyone who creates art for art's sake is entitled to anything. It would be nice if that was true, but art can suck, and often does. Yeah, it's subjective, but supply and demand is real, and if no one is demanding your art, regardless of the intent behind it, then you're not going to make much of a living.

Lord Gonchar:

It'd be quicker to name those that aren't.

If you can afford a tour bus you're probably using a click track.

Jeff:

I really think the Mutt Langes, Rick Rubins and Butch Vigs of the world aren't trying to put their stamp on things.

I only have an opinion on Rubin and Vigs. It's all subjective of course but I think Rubin and Vigs skillset is making a record — or nowadays singles — that will sell copies whether or not that's in the band's best interest or not. The Beastie Boys and Nirvana are prime examples of this.

Also, Google's A.I. is hilariously bad.

Rick Rubin didn't produce a full Nirvana studio album, but he was deeply involved with the band's sound, notably producing their landmark album In Utero (1993)'s hit single "Heart-Shaped Box", and he worked with them on early demos and tracks, aiming for a raw, direct sound, though Butch Vig produced most of Nevermind.

Steve Albini famously told Nirvana before recording In Utero that he wanted to be paid like a plumber rather than receive points on the record.

I would like to be paid like a plumber: I do the job and you pay me what it's worth. The record company will expect me to ask for a point or a point and a half. If we assume three million sales, that works out to 400,000 dollars or so. There's no ****ing way I would ever take that much money. I wouldn't be
able to sleep.

I probably read the letter once a year when it inevitably comes up again. It's worth a read.

eightdotthree:

If you can afford a tour bus you're probably using a click track.

Thank you for putting this in a way that is clear in one line. I was struggling.

At a certain level, "fake" is just what music is. (In the sense of the comparison to what the average fan thinks they're seeing)

Hell, it's not uncommon to see the drummers on Broadway (my Broadway, not NYC - although I'm SURE they do) using a click...and they're playing for their cut of the tip bucket. Musician want-ads down here don't just include "able to do backing vox" or "plays keyboard too" it's "experience with click" or "Ableton setup".

Jeff:
A lot of pop is notoriously intended to be product...

Again, maybe I'm just more cynical, but if it's making it's way to a 50-year old dude in Florida, it's product.

Jeff:
But if they were faking it, they wouldn't have always toured with a bassist.

Not Garbage in particular, but I think you're giving the industry and the people profiting from it far too much credit.

Here's a sneak peek at the new pre-show:

From there I guess the ride is more themed to a police chase.

Actually, it's just the algorithm doing its job and serving me a 12-year old video because I spent a little bit of time searching the Muppets recently. (I'm looking in your direction CoasterBuzz)

eightdotthree:

It's all subjective of course but I think Rubin and Vigs skillset is making a record — or nowadays singles — that will sell copies whether or not that's in the band's best interest or not. The Beastie Boys and Nirvana are prime examples of this.

That's an interesting hot take. I think Beastie Boys and Nirvana were inevitable.

Vater:
The Beatles made it huge by writing pop songs. Sure, their writing evolved and arguably improved with age and drugs, but they were a pop act from the start.

I wasn't really going after pop music, or any genre. I don't think the genre matters that much. The Beatles wrote great, enduring songs, in a style that was probably different for the time. I think there is some pretty great pop music now. Olivia Rodrigo is fantastic, but admittedly, her street cred it pretty high when she brought The Breeders out on tour. She basically connects to everyone in the 90's I loved. But she writes a solid pop song.

Lord Gonchar:
I think you're giving the industry and the people profiting from it far too much credit.

I'm not nearly as cynical as others might be, despite my distaste for Spotify and the dead revenue models.

Jeff:

I wasn't really going after pop music, or any genre.

I wasn't either, I was more pointing out that they gained popularity because their early music was very much formulaic, like other popular rock and roll acts of the time. Meaning the intent of their earlier stuff was likely not just to make art, but money (and fame?) as well.

The only thing nerdier than people arguing/debating rollercoasters and amusement parks might be people arguing/debating about music. I do wonder, who is more passionate though?

Never mind. It's Disney nerds.

"There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow" > "Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me)"

I guess we are getting to the High Fidelity level here.

Jeff:

I think Beastie Boys and Nirvana were inevitable.

I don't know that Nirvana makes such a huge splash without Vigs' influence on Nevermind. In Utero and Bleach were abrasive and unpalatable to mainstream audiences.

Another easy example of Rubin's influence is Metallica's black album IMO. They were popular with the Headbanger's Ball crowd but Rubin shaped them into a global mainstream phenomenon.

Whether or not any of them got the best or simply the most appeal out of the bands is a matter of taste I suppose.

I'd wager most of the wane of the Muppets popularity was the death of Jim Henson.

The Muppet Christmas Carol and Treasure Island fans would like a stern word with you.

I also don’t get why Disney does not still do this, A Muppet Pride and Prejudice would make all the money and be awesome, then Dracula or Sherlock Holmes, then if feeling edgy Jules Verne.

Jeff, after old Google Music got axxed (free storage, no shiity Apple coding and migrating)I found IBroadcast which host your library for a small fee and lets me pick my resolution, cover art, and has a good app, and browser interface too.

eightdotthree:

Another easy example of Rubin's influence is Metallica's black album IMO.

That was Bob Rock and in the late 80's/early 90's he took a few of those bands to #1.

More on topic:

Cockroaches, The Muppets, and Aerosmith. - At this point, any of the three might be a valid theme.

Vater:

I was more pointing out that they gained popularity because their early music was very much formulaic, like other popular rock and roll acts of the time.

Interesting, I don't have the wider context of music of the time to make that kind of assessment. I like the early stuff, but I definitely like the later stuff more.

hambone:

"There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow" > "Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me)"

Of all the stuff said in this thread, this is the only thing I have a strong opinion on. And you, sir, are wrong.

eightdotthree:

I don't know that Nirvana makes such a huge splash without Vigs' influence on Nevermind.

So much truth to this. There was a guy who owned a studio I used to record at a lot, and there was a single album he used as a measuring stick to his own mixing and production: Nevermind. It's such an incredibly produced album that honestly makes me wonder if Nirvana would be a household name if Vig wasn't involved.

Lord Gonchar:

eightdotthree:

Another easy example of Rubin's influence is Metallica's black album IMO.

That was Bob Rock and in the late 80's/early 90's he took a few of those bands to #1.

Death Magnetic is what Rubin produced for Metallica. It was their first album after St. Anger, and after an album like that, you for sure call Rick Rubin to help you. Which he most certainly did for them.

Lord Gonchar:

That was Bob Rock

Shows you what TF I know. Still backs up my point about a producer’s influence though.

99er:
Death Magnetic is what Rubin produced for Metallica

Goes against my point because while that album sounds more like old Metallica, there’s nothing memorable about it whatsoever.