Zero Tolerance for Queue jumpers?

Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:54 AM
Hi all,

In response to an earlier thread about queue jumpers: comments on that thread indicated that queue jumpers, when caught, often only get sent to the back of the line. Is this a common policy in US parks?

Some UK Parks operate a "zero tolerance" policy on queue jumping: if you get caught, you're escorted from the park. Warning signs also cite the common excuses given by would-be jumpers and exclude them as justification for cutting in line.

It's difficult to say whether such a firm line on queue jumping serves to dissuade people from doing it. I suspect the threat, by itself, is not sufficient. The policy needs to be seen to be implemented. Obviously, this means extra costs, in terms of staff etc.

As an observation, I've never really experienced much of a problem with queue jumpers at UK parks that operate the zero-tolerance policy e.g. Alton Towers.

My own policy on queue jumping is, admittedly, quite severe: Jumpers should be allowed to the front of the queue, and put on the ride with the restraints de-activated!! :-) God help anyone who cuts in line before me in the queue for Oblivion! *evil laugh*

By the way, I remember someone commenting that cutting in line was a poor reflection on society. Well, some people will do almost anything to avoid queuing: a couple of years ago at Chessington World of Adventures, I over-heard a ride-op being told by his supervisor of some individuals who were pretending to be disabled to gain priority access to the rides. Absolutely deplorable conduct!

All the best.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:42 AM
At SFoG, if I see anybody cutting, security is immediately called and they are escorted out of the park. This is supposed to be a set rule, but some operators will let it depend on the actual situation and for what reason they cut. For instance, if its some old lady who honestly didn't know, I have been known to just ask them to go to the end of the line, whereas if its some group of teenagers doing it and laugning, you better bet they will get to know the back seat of a Security Jeep.

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SFoG Train Engineer since '03.
SFoG: Land of rides under 2 min.
*** This post was edited by Chris the Coaster Freak 7/30/2003 9:42:38 AM ***

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:18 AM
The problem with making "exceptions on the sutiation" is all of the grey areas that exist.

While waiting in line I have seen the following:

1) Group of people (lots of times kids) attempting to line cut with their excuse of "Our friends are up ahead and we HAVE to get up to them".

2) Some people in a group getting out of line to get something to eat or drink and then attempting to get back in.

3) Person in a group getting out of line to use the rest rooms.

4) Parent taking a young child out of line to use the rest room.

My reactions to these:

1) Your friends should have waited for you... let them come back and join you if you want to ride together.

2) Sorry, but you should have thought about that before you got into an obviously long line

3) As with situation 2... Sorry, but you should have gone before you got in line. HOWEVER... if it is only 1 person in a group of 3 or more, then, depending on my mood, it may not bother me. HOWEVER... I have seen 3 people in a group of 4 try this... Sorry... but your entire party does not have to accompany you to the rest room. For the most part... I don't buy this reason.

4) The only reason that I actually buy. Unlike adults, young kids will not think ahead and the adults that are with them may ask them before they get in line if "the have to go", but, at that very moment, if they don't have to, they will say "No"... then half way through the line say "I gotta go". However, even in this case there is a grey area. If the entire group gets out of line... they then go to the back of the line.

So basically, to avoid all confusion, my thought is this...

You enter the line at the back of the line, no matter what (I don't care if your friends are up ahead), and if you get out of line for any reason, you re-enter the line at the back of the line.

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Half of the people surveyed agree, half disagree and another half are unsure.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:33 AM
Zero tolerance (with the above noted exception for kids bathroom breaks/diaper changing) would work for me. Since my home park is GAdv, it's one of the worst parks for that and the employees don't seem to care at all. More staff would be needed, btu it would make it more friendly to families to go.
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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:51 AM
So reading all of this has brought up a weird anecdotal situation in my mind. Attend me, if you will :)

Two years ago, I was at CP in line for Millennium Force, and it was extremely hot on this day in the dog days of August. There were (and I assume still are) soda machines in the queue. I stopped and got a Code Red, which was still new at that point. While I was getting my soda, the line moved past me.

No one gave me any trouble about getting back to my place in line, since my partner-in-crime at the time was still in place. However, it begs the question - was I a line jumper, or were the people who passed me up?

To my way of thinking, they jumped line by passing me. I do wonder, though, what the park's p-o-v would be on this.

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Harry Baer IV

"Do you think it was a bear?"
"A bear? Bears are sweet! Besides, you ever seen a bear with 40 foot feet?"

[edited for typographical idiocy correction]
*** This post was edited by Baeritone 7/30/2003 12:52:58 PM ***

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:02 AM
Baeritone,

I was in a similar situation awhile back. I can't remember the coaster, but I had the same thought as you. "Did I just jump the line?!?!" I would have to say no, since you never left your spot in line. Others moved ahead of you when I am sure it was painfully obvious that you were just getting a soda and would then be moving the line along.

Sean

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"Ever hear of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates...Morons!"

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:04 AM
Baeritone...IMO, no line jumping occurred.

The amazing thing about *actual* line-jumping is how many parents teach their children to do it....and how many people have "friends" that won't wait for them.....hmmm...."if they were really your friends, they'd wait for YOU".....;)
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your company's name and logo HERE...effective advertising at great rates!

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:10 AM
As much as I hate line jumping, and I've seen people get beat silly for it (yay!), I've been in some VERY long lines (can anyone say X?) where that one leg hopping feeling started to wash over me...what can you do? You've already waited for two hours....

I think waits shouldn't be that long and if they are longer than say an hour and a half, individuals should be allowed to walk up the exit and relieve themselves. I guess the problem would be the safety of having people duck under railings.

How about a small bathroom next to the soda machines then?

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"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:13 AM

Baeritone said:


However, it begs the question - was I a line jumper, or were the people who passed me up?

To my way of thinking, they jumped line by passing me. I do wonder, though, what the park's p-o-v would be on this.


I think CP has a sign by the soda machines saying something to the effect of "please do not hold up the line while purchasing soda". So, I would say you were the line jumper. The technically correct thing would be to just rejoin the line at the soda machine, not go through the line to get to your previous place.

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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
*** This post was edited by Pete 7/30/2003 1:13:49 PM ***

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:15 AM
Baeritone, You never left the line, you just stood still as it moved, IMHO, so I would have let you get back in your spot even if you were by yourself. As to anything else(even the rents taking the kids, and call me a mean @$$ if you wish), I don't let people back in line for any reason. If you leave, even to take your kids to the bathroom, then its your responsibility to get in the back. All the more reason I think there should be a small one person restroom in lines, so that if you do have to go, you can, and just miss a few spaces in the line while you're in there.

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Beaver, its whats for dinner:p.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:23 AM
They could have an employee there to keep a gap in the line. When people are done buying drinks and going to the bathroom, and the line moves up a bit, the employee could let more people in.

They could design it so that this area is near the front of the line so that while the line is being held, the person can answer height questions, loose article questions from folks just getting into line.

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"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:28 AM
No, if you stop in line to buy a soda, you are not allowed to re-join the line where you were. Personally, I dont see how stoping at a soda machine is any different that going out to the churro cart on the midway. Either way, you are not participating in the line as it has moved on without you. It's my opinion that if you are a 'hardliner' on one, you should be on the other as well.

Now me, I do not think it possible for me to care less about if some cat leaves the line to take a whiz. If I *saw* that he was in front of me to begin with, I dont have a problem with letting them re-gain their spot.

lata, jeremy

--an excellent example of why I do not work at the parks

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:30 AM
Wouldn't a *cat* be a little to short to ride anyway....;)

bill, wondering why jeremy hasn't been around much lately.....oh, THAT'S why...nevermind...;)

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:42 AM

2Hostyl said:
No, if you stop in line to buy a soda, you are not allowed to re-join the line where you were. Personally, I dont see how stoping at a soda machine is any different that going out to the churro cart on the midway. Either way, you are not participating in the line as it has moved on without you. It's my opinion that if you are a 'hardliner' on one, you should be on the other as well.

Now me, I do not think it possible for me to care less about if some cat leaves the line to take a whiz. If I *saw* that he was in front of me to begin with, I dont have a problem with letting them re-gain their spot.

lata, jeremy

--an excellent example of why I do not work at the parks


Ah, but my point - if I stopped in the line and didn't notice that the people in front of me have moved on for a minute, did I step out of line, or should the line stop with me?

There is a very big difference between stepping out of line to get a snack at a cart or stand and using a soda machine that the park put IN the line for your use, IMO.

Whatever park rules might be, I will cheerfully follow them - but why have soda machines in a line if you don't intend for anyone to have time to use them?

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--
Harry Baer IV

"Do you think it was a bear?"
"A bear? Bears are sweet! Besides, you ever seen a bear with 40 foot feet?"

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:49 AM
You don't need to ask my opinions of line jumpers. You only need to witness my berserker mode, and all will be explained.
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First Spinal Tap, THEN puppet show
*** This post was edited by nasai 7/30/2003 2:49:43 PM ***
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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:57 AM
Getting a pop out of a machine thats in the line, to me thats not a line jump. 9/10 of the time if your cool about it I am cool about it. Its when people get a bug up there butt, thats when I go off.

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Hi.....whats your name again?

Visit the 1st and only Jeff Siebert Fan page!!

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:31 AM
Baer, I dont disagree with your statement "why have soda machines in line...". What I am saying is that using them *is* stepping out of line and you should let people pass and get behind them when you are through. Actually, this is the stated policy @ SFGAm on such rides as B:TR and American Eagle that, beyond having vending machines, actually have staffed snack shops.

I can see how you can see the maching in line and the cart on the midway as different, but can you understand how I can present them as the same? Either way, you are giving up you place in line to do something that has *nothing* to do with waiting for the ride. Why should the others behind you be penalized for your actions?

lata, jeremy

--who stresses that he *personally* doesnt care much, but is making the argument for discussion purposes

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:50 AM
But How will either a) letting the person back to their original spot in line or b) waiting for them to get their beverage of choice make your wait longer?

I could swear someone around here made a big deal about people getting upset if someone doesn't constantly keep the line moving (aka chatting away and not notice the people in front of them have advanced). Should these people be made to exit the line because of they held up the line - even if you still get to the station in the same amount of time anyhow?
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--George H
---Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:05 PM
Oh, I see your point, jeremy. Ain't no thang.....as I said, when this happened to me, no one said a word, or even seemed annoyed. Just a question I thought about after...:)

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--
Harry Baer IV

"Do you think it was a bear?"
"A bear? Bears are sweet! Besides, you ever seen a bear with 40 foot feet?"

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:13 PM
Good point. It ain't gonna get you on the ride quicker.

I still say put an employee there. Heck, if you don't want to build a restroom, build a booby hatch so people can get out of line easily. Give them a pass to wait for their party in the exit.

Too complicated? Perhaps, but long lines and nature's call are immiscible.

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"I go out at 3 o' clock for a quart of milk and come home to my son treating his body like an amusement park!" - Estelle Costanza
*** This post was edited by janfrederick 7/30/2003 4:13:40 PM ***

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