X difficulties

Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:12 PM
X was closed at Magic Mountain both Monday and Tuesday all day. I was very dissapointed, as this was my first visit from the east coast and I was looking forward to X the most.

There was a crane lifting parts up to the lift hill Tuesday morning. There was a large purple structure (maybe a walkway) across the track about 2/3 up the lift. There were three workers on the lift, including one who was on his back within or underneath the track. All the trains were in the transfer shed. I did not see the ride even test once either day.

Two friendly representatives guest relations told me that it would probably only run Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and that they were surprised when maintanence cleared it to open last Friday. It is already closed Wednesday and a lot of Thursdays, but you might have to add Mondays and Tuesdays to that list as well.

Though the park was very busy, on the bright side, Deja Vu was running quite well both days. I will post a trip report later.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:17 PM
From what I've heard, X runs on the weekends only. Why, I don't know, but I think it's better than having it sit there like last summer...

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Never Has Gravity Been So Uplifting.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:31 PM
X has been running on Fridays - Sundays recently but will be running daily starting this week or next. X has had a lot of serious problems and minimal daily operation recently has taken its toll on X. SFMM is just doing what ever it can to keep X running throughout the summer so last year's fiasco does not occur again (X being closed May - August). Right now, SFMM is working a lot on X's lift hill, but besides that, who knows what else is being done.

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http://sfmm.brakerun.com
Six Flags Magic Mountain Xtreme Guide

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:58 PM
LOL i have a friend who was there with a youth group, and he said he would not have ridden it cause 4 people died on it HAHAAH

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Veck
http://www.bcptars.com/
"Park in Arizona? It will happen!"

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:11 PM
.....you mean the rows of rotating seats that broke off last year? Legend says they buried themselves in the ground and are still turning to this very day. They might be to China by now.

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Where is the Demon? (BONG!) How did he get there? (BONG!) And why, WHY does he stay? ("AAAAAAUGH!")
Arrowed!

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:13 PM
Is it me, or does X sound like it's just been doomed from the start? I'm hoping to ride it this winter, but it sounds like a crapshoot whether it will even be running at all.

Does anyone else get the feeling that it will go the way of Drachen Fire withing a few years, with the maintenence being just too expensive to be worth it?

I hope not, but it doesn't look good. B&M - where's your version of the 4-d!?!

~me

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S:ROS; SFNE. Ride it, and you'll understand.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:57 PM
It seems to me that in the process of ironing out all the kinks in the ride, they managed to make it run more reliably and more often. Once they'd done that, new problems started cropping up with extended use, and the biggest one now seems to be that it eats wheels. The past 3 times I've gone when X is actually running, it's lost a train halfway through the day due to a wheel breaking. (Well, one of the times they replaced the wheel and got it running again, but the other two times, they just removed the offending train).

They must be spending a small fortune on wheels/wheel repairs, so I'm sure only running it three days out of the week is an attempt to bring those costs down.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:59 PM
X's major flaw is that it was rushed by SFMM. They wanted a HUGE ride. The technology wasn't tested yet and was new. Arrow only had a few years to create it. (From concept, to 50ft test track, to X) The only operating version was that 50ft test track. If I would have been in charge of SFMM, I would have told them to work on it till they perfected it. I also would have wanted to see a small full cercuit coaster first. I would have put Scream! in, in 2002 and put X in this year. By now, they should have darn near perfected the 4D's techonlogy.

Sadly, X has given Arrow a bad rep for downtime, but look at all the other Arrows out there. I bet none of them have/had the same downtime as X.

I would also like to see Arrow be the only company with a 4D. It was Shilke's design, and should be kept with Arrow.

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My mind works in strange ways. Yeah with a chain driven lift hill and gravity.

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:42 AM
This reminds me of a debate I just had on RRC. I've never worked in the industry, but I imagine that most businesses are pretty similar to the ones I *have* worked in, and in the end, it's Arrow's fault. SF approached them to build a ride, and when it looked like they weren't going to be able to sell anything, they showed the idea for a 4D design.

SF said "Great, we want one 200 feet tall, and we want X capacity on it." I imagine that Arrow responded that they weren't sure if they could pull it off, and SF said that if they couldn't get that, then they didn't want one in the first place. They don't want SFMM to be the park that has the first 4D, then have every other park get a 4D bigger and badder than the one at their flagship park.

So, Arrow, relatively desperate to sell a high-ticket ride to SFMM and help revive their name after some serious stagnation as well as get some cash into their coffers, agreed to build it. This is where it became their fault. They weren't forced to agree to build what SFMM wanted. Lots of companies agree to make something they can't actually make, then either fail to make it at all, or make one that is fundamentally flawed. But they agreed, said they could do it, and delivered a product that didn't work as advertised.

End of story. They said they could do it, and they couldn't. For Arrow to survive long term, they should have been straight with SF, and negotiate to make a smaller version at one of their non-flagship parks. It's not SF's fault that Arrow didn't have any other rides worth bothering with, causing them to play their 4D trump card early. They got a short-term victory in the form of a signed contract for an extremely expensive ride, but it left them with nothing to finish out the game, and a crappy hand. They blew it.

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 5:11 AM
I do agree with Tom's assessment of the situation. I think Arrow took a sort of "this is our last shot" view of the X project, and just got in over their heads. I do think that X will go the way of Drachen Fire. I think that once they fix these problems with the lift hill and wheels and daily operations, they're going to start having problems with that final Raven. I know most people haven't agreed with me on this board, but those in the park did, that final Raven is rough. If it doesn't start to produce guest complaints a-la Drachen Fire, it's going to start ripping itself apart down on that end. I think its a great ride, and an absolutely incredible concept, but it was too much, too fast and I do believe it was doomed from the start.

Perhaps as a concession to Arrow, SF would let them rebuild the ride if the funding presented itself (I know, longshot, but it could happen)? If not, bring in B&M and let them give it a shot.

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"As soon as you design something that's idiot-proof, the world will go and design a better idiot."
--Brett

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:08 AM
Lost Phantom, if you didn't read through all of Tom Servo's assessment of where to point the finger of blame, read it again. Clearly Arrow bit off more than they could chew, and it cost them their business. Arrow could have said no to SF's ideas for what they wanted X to be, but they didn't.

I think it's doubtful that X will be taken down any time soon. It obvously has problems, but it is still a huge draw, one worth spending the extra money on upkeep. While the second Raven turn is shakey, it doesn't ever get any worse than Psyclone, Flashback or Viper.

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SCREAM with me... in 2003!

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:25 AM
X's problem is with the track (inner rails to be exact.) Design flaws cause the track to have trouble in heat. Also a lot of little (a couple big too) problems with the trains. If the track didn't have the problems it does because of heat, then X would operate a lot more.

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www.CaliforniaCoasterNews.com
www.SFMWZone.com
*** This post was edited by GoliathKills 6/19/2003 12:26:02 PM ***

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:30 AM
Placing blames is pointless now. The fact that a cool prototype coaster like 4D exist is the important issue. It was a gamble on both sides and the result a super cool coaster. It took vision and guts to produce. Many companies would be intimidated to create a concept such as the 4D. Many coaster designers just modify existing concepts or turn down a design challenge. I'm glad that Arrow and Six Flags got in bed together. Otherwise the concept may not have existed.

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QAF's season finally is this coming Sunday. What's going to happen to Ted and Emmit?

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:33 AM
Well since B&M is also creating a supposed 4D I wouldn't say all companies turn down prototypes. Also, how does your statement apply to Intamin? B&M is the only company that doesn't do radical innovations (of the 4 majors)

And is anyone else disturbed by the 2nd to last sentance there? I'm sure there's a less graphic way you could have phrased that ;)

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"As soon as you design something that's idiot-proof, the world will go and design a better idiot."
--Brett

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:51 AM
Draw your own conclusion....P.S. it's a metaphor for birth.

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Judgement, Superiority (ego), intolerance, and Hostility.........Makes CB the "Jenny Jones for "Coaster Trekkies" LOL

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:01 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Arrow do the Bat at King's Island back in the '80's? That was also a coaster that had a groundbreaking idea but just wasn't thought out entirely. Maybe they should step back and rethink the concept and try it again later.
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Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:05 AM
You guys are right on the money! and If B&M builds one it will kick butt!
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Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:11 AM
I didn't find the last raven turn rough at all. It was a little intense and a little bit "bouncy" but with those restraints, I didn't mind it at all. Besides, taking it face first totally outweighs any jarring that the element might create.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph
"Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff

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Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:17 AM
Do you have some issues with your last employer?
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Judgement, Superiority (ego), intolerance, and Hostility.........Makes CB the "Jenny Jones for "Coaster Trekkies" LOL
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Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:32 AM
Coasterbob,

Not really, the person who did the most damage to Arrow is gone. I just hated to see a good company like that destroyed by a few selfserving people.

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