Worst hour cuts in Six Flags history?
2001 was the season where attendance dropped by about 50% it was extremely empty. While the park can be empty on some rainy weekdays, that doesn't mean it's empty all the time. I would gather to say that some days were actually much more crowded at Six Flags New Orleans this year than the successful 2003 season due to improved weather (specifically in July and August, and more specifically July 4th weekend (and Monday), which was packed in 2004 and empty in 2003 due to rain). The expanded concert series also did help attendance by lot and the usual strong beginning of summer (May-early June) was a major plus for the park. Just because Jazzland made a sour taste in many locals' mouths doesn't mean a park would never succeed in the city. Jazzland did extremely well in its first season (attendance: 1.1 million) but the problem was that it just wasn't anywhere near being finished. I think the park still isn't quite "finished..."
Pontchartrain Beach never failed, it was bought by a land developer for more money than the family-owned park could imagine. The park could have gone on several more years and not faced its demise.
Have you seen their management on a day-to-day basis? It's most definitely the (poor) management! It's not that the people of New Orleans don't like amusement parks and only like to hang out in bars and get drunk on Bourbon street. There are hundreds of thousands of families here who want to take their children to have a good time. New Orleans is not just about historical buildings and getting drunk!
*** Edited 1/7/2005 2:21:13 AM UTC by Cameraman***
B: Wether you are willing to admit it or not, New Orleans visitors ARE there for Burbon Street. I wish there was a way to measure the number of people going there, I GUARANTEE you it's way more than 1.1 million.
C: Maybe there are hunderds of thousands of families that are looking for a nice park to go to, but a park needs millions to survive.
D: The amount of money and effort to make SFNO a "perfect park" will never be spent there, because despite you opinions on what will bring people to the park, the population base is simply not there.
You can join the ranks of Elich Gardens, Astroworld, and Darien Lake folks who complain every year about how their underperforming parks get treated. Six Flags is in trouble, you don't need me to tell you that. Sadly when companies are faced with the kind of problems SF is facing, these are the results.
Pass da' sizzrup, bro!
I never said I wanted Jazzland/SFNO to be a "perfect park" but rather a completed one in the sense that something is completed from its planning. Jazzland opened with the bare essentials. I will admit that Six Flags made it closer to becoming "completed" (I know that no park is really complete). There are a few parks in similarly sized markets without much tourism at all that manage to get along ok. Some that come to mind are Worlds of Fun and Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom. One park in a similarly sized market that does have tourism as a major contributor to attendance and does spectacular is Six Flags Fiesta Texas.
Oh, and the quote posting thing isn't my rule, it's the Webmasters. Go ahead and argue with him about it.
Pass da' sizzrup, bro!
Sirloindude, who is tired of having to leave SFA at 9:00.
13 Boomerang, 9 SLC, and 8 B-TR clones
When a park serves food that is crap and charges way too much money for the crap, people wont buy it and will leave the park too purchase it, the same goes for $2.75 20 oz sodas.
When a park tries to force guests to buy fastlane passes by running rides less than capacity they will not make money.
And a unhappy customer isnt going to go into the stores and buy trinkets as a reminder of a less than happy day at the park and wont return and spread good word of mouth about the positive experience they had.
Im lucky in the sense that i have one of the best run SF(SFGAM) parks that i visit, but unlucky that they have no near by competition so i could visit a park where i would leave it at the end day raving about the good times at the park rather than the BS you have to put up at the park.
SF needs to learn what parks like PKI/BGW/WDW/USF etc do right and copy that formula if they wish to get out of the mountain of debt they have, but there is no indication they haved any idea on how to do this and building the worlds biggest coaster wont be the answer if there numerous problems arent fixed!!
SFNO did well in 04 regardless of what you might read on fan sites.
As far as the schedule is concerned, parks know at all times how many people are in thier park.Therefore it must be felt that early closing time would be beneficial and the new schedule reflects that.
If not then it may changed on the fly after the season starts.
I predict,on that news and rumor site, will soon report, SFNO is up for sale! HA Ha ha!!! *** Edited 1/7/2005 12:37:41 PM UTC by calcajun*** *** Edited 1/7/2005 2:13:40 PM UTC by calcajun***
Soggy said:
You can join the ranks of Elich Gardens, Astroworld, and Darien Lake folks who complain every year about how their underperforming parks get treated. Six Flags is in trouble, you don't need me to tell you that. Sadly when companies are faced with the kind of problems SF is facing, these are the results.
Revealing my AW fanboy side, I just want to say that AstroWorld isn't exactly underperforming.
So don't bring SFAW into this cluster of an argument.
Anybody been to SFNO at night? It has one of the best lighting packages I have seen, a lot like Lakeside in Denver with Neon and real Art Deco feel. Sorry none of you "Experts" will get a chance to see it.
The 8 PM close on Sunday thru Thursday means the park will close before the sun even goes down 5 days a week during peak season.
And the meager 9 PM close on Friday and Saturday means they'll be closing only about 1/2 hour after darkness falls.
From a personal standpoint, I love riding coasters at night, or just being in parks at night, and always have, dating back to a boyhood spent riding the Ed Vettel PB Zephyr all the way to midnight on Friday nights.
My dad used to pick me up after work and take me to the Beach, and we'd have time to ride everything in the park at least once, with multiple laps on the Zephyr to start and end our visit. But with an 8 PM close at SFNO, if someone tried to do that now they'd just be getting there and have to leave!
I try to take most of my trips to other parks when the temps are cooler and the night hours are most plentiful, such as during Halloween events and Christmas (where applicable).
But even beyond my personal tastes, I feel that SFNO needs to emphasize night hours more, especially during peak season, for at least 3 reasons:
1) New Orleans in the summer is just two darn hot and humid to spend much time at that park during the day.
2) New Orleans is a nightlife city.
3) As mentioned, the SFNO light package at night is gorgeous, and the park is a soothing and pleasant wonderland at night. By day, the lack of shade and trees is VERY noticable, and, especially when the sun is relentlessly strong and bright, it just feels relentlessly hot, swampy, and CONCRETE! I don't think I've ever visited a park where the difference between night and day feels as polarized, as, well, night and day!
On a final note, I also wanted to echo what Cameraman previously stated about Pontchartrain Beach.
It survived from 1938 - 1983, as a classic mom and pop seaside/traditional park, LONG after the heyday of such parks had faded. It outlived many similar such parks in larger markets.
In 1983, the younger generation (then in charge) of the family that owned the Beach got "an offer they couldn't refuse" from a land developer who wanted the land for condos.
Ironically, the condo deal fell through after the rides were sold off and the Zephyr demolished, but many other landmarks remained on the site for several years, a sad reminder of what might have been, and the destruction that didn't have to be...
Frontrider *** Edited 1/8/2005 3:31:34 AM UTC by Frontrider***
calcajun said:As far as the schedule is concerned, parks know at all times how many people are in thier park.Therefore it must be felt that early closing time would be beneficial and the new schedule reflects that.
If not then it may changed on the fly after the season starts.
I just dont see how there are some people that really think Six Flags didnt think about this at all. I quoted you because its very important with all this chatter to remember that yes indeed they are monitering excatly how many people are in the park at any time during the day, we have all gone through the turnstyles, they are not just a theme for an amuesment park.
I completely agree that nights in pretty much any park are much more enjoyable than day, and yes many of the night hours have been cut, but its obvious that Six Flags felt, from there numbers, that the night hours just werent pulling the weight. This could be as many of you have said that New Orleans is a night destination, causing less people in the park and more people enjoying the night life.
I completely support the decsion of Six Flags to cut hours (assuming they did extensive research before doing so which theres no doubt in my mind they did) its a great way of saving money, at least compared to the alternatives.
In the end I feel that sure it may be a bummer I dont get to hang out at a park during the night hours, but really thats not going to keep me from coming in the gate. There is much more that will either bring me in or keep me out, I dont base my visitation one hours and I think it would be silly to do so.
If theres a nice attendence boom for some strange reason this season, like Ive said earlier, its not foreign for Six Flags to add hours during the season.
Pale Rider said:
That's definitely a sad situation when locals don't even want to go to their home park. It would be nice to see another company (that gives a damn) buy the park but I don't really see who.
Maybe Kent Buesher will buy it if Cypress Gardens works out well for Him.(seems to doing well so far)
googlewatt said:
In the end I feel that sure it may be a bummer I dont get to hang out at a park during the night hours, but really thats not going to keep me from coming in the gate. There is much more that will either bring me in or keep me out, I dont base my visitation one hours and I think it would be silly to do so.
Well, I respect your opinion, and only wish to respectfully disagree about it being "silly" to base one's visits to parks on hours.
I don't just like night hours a little better than daylight hours.
The difference for me is EXPONENTIAL! I enjoy night hours at least 50 times more than daylight hours, no exaggeration. Frankly, I STRONGLY DETEST both heat and sunlight,but ever since my youth I've been enchanted by the magic of the moon and the stars.
Or to put it another way, I would MUCH prefer to be outside at night than inside, but would MUCH rather be inside than outside during the day, with the one possible exception of a cloudy, completely sunless day that is also below 70 degrees.
When I visit parks during the day, something integral just seems MISSING to me... it's like trying to watch fireworks during the day or trying to watch a movie with the house lights turned on and a bunch of glare on the screen! Because you happen to like the movie anyway, it is enjoyable on some level; but turn off the lights and it still seems 100 % better. Everything feels RIGHT.
Now, lets say the most memorable rides I've ever had on my favorite coasters, The Boss and Texas Giant, occured at night. That I enjoyed those rides SIGNIFICANTLY more than my day rides on them - which is true for ALL coasters I've ridden!
Let's say I have a finite amount of money to spend on visits to those parks.
I can:
a) blow my cash to visit during a time when night rides are minimal, (such as spring or September) getting little or none of the experience I want the most (front seat night rides)
OR
b) I can patiently wait for the best window for night rides each year (in this case, Fright Fest, particularly the late closings on Fridays) and RACK UP night ride after night ride, ideally in the cold weather I LOVE so much, speeding through the dark, in the front seat, in the cold night air - my MOST desired coaster experience.
Obviously, "B" should be my choice. In my case, chosing "A" WOULD be "silly", and my failure to get a significant amount of night rides on those coasters that year would be my fault.
My philosophy of life is to identify what makes you happy, and GO FOR IT!
That is NEVER silly, IMO.
Frontrider *** Edited 1/8/2005 6:09:04 PM UTC by Frontrider***
Eliminate the pay extra Lo-Q.
Cut morning and early afternoon hours BUT have the park open from 3-11 pm every weekdays (except mon&tues) during the school year. During the summer I'd open the park from noon-11 on slower weekdays. Park would open at noon on busy peak days and stay open until midnite,1:00 or 2:00 am if permitted.
Give the employees a minimum rasie of 20% and cut staffing ONLY where it is needed if it is needed.
Run the rides at maximum capacity anytime a line is expected to exceed 20 minute.
Charge normal food prices like Holiday World does.
FREE parking, soda & suncreen!!
Keeping the park clean!
Properly staff EVERY food & merchandise shop or stand to insure quality customer service.
Replace MegaZeph with a 150'-180' TGG or S&S woodie with at least 36 crossovers and a 72* drop and PTC trains. Think GCI steel structured woodie on steroids and more extreme forces! :-)
If there is no drop tower add a Maurer Soehne Xtended Power Tower drop tower. If there is one I'd replace it anyway because the MS XPT looks like the best most thrilling outdoor drop tower ever made.
And the BIGGEST change is to add a HUGE 220'-250' tall B&M or Intamin hyper coaster that goes around an L shape perimeter of the park and make it as extreme as the manufacturer is willing to go. Another option is to buy SD2k if Nagashima Spaland gives up on reopening it and would be willing to sell it as a reasonable price and if I can find enough room.
Does anyone think thats a good plan? I know it is not realistic to win the lottery but how can the park fail if I follow that formula? Yes I would make sure the rides are safely well maintained! I wouldn't cut corners and neither does Holiday World! *** Edited 1/9/2005 8:06:35 AM UTC by Pink Floyd Fanatic***
Every improvement you want to make is right on what the customers want. Therfore it will attract folks from all over the country making it the best park ever!
I hope you win that powerball! :-) Really
I also think your plans are way, way too extreme and the park would make no money (when you figured in the investment costs). SFNO doesn't need a ton of rides just tossed in there. It needs a lot of work on atmosphere and customer service. Sure a new ride here and there is important for future success, but when you look at SFWoA, you see that throwing a bunch of rides in won't always work for the long run. Staffing is also a huge problem. I believe that their budget does not allow the park to hire as many local employees as they should (particularly when the foreign employees leave). Since the city of New Orleans resurrected the park for the economic stimulation in the area, I think the park should feel obligated to hire the correct amount of staff. It's as if the foreign workers leave when summer ends and no one fills in the gaps, which results in many ride closures (And people notice, I talked to a 1st-time visitor from Pensacola, Florida who was very dismayed about the ride closures on a September day and acted like he would never come back; over 10 rides down that Saturday).
The park needs a lot done, but throwing around that kind of money would just be a loss. It needs smart investments that aim towards family friendliness to gain the respect of locals. I know this is a fairly isolated case, but I have just about no friends who purchase Six Flags season passes. Six Flags has lost their respect obviously since the first season. There was something missing there to make them want to go back.
I do not think the park faced any really "hard times" this year if you compared it to 2001. I believe attendance dropped very little from last year (I know you all may say "well how do you know?" but when you visit as much as I do, you notice if the park is doing badly). Some of these cuts are excessive, but it's obvious that they are planning for extremely bad times this season. It will just make matters worse not better. I suppose these hour cuts are just buying more time to a prolonged ordeal that may explode in the next few years if nothing is done. *** Edited 1/9/2005 8:57:40 PM UTC by Cameraman***
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