Witness says ride operators at fault in Six Flags New England death

freakylick,

I ran into (well not literally) a channel 2 news crew at the park, well now that I think about it, on Saturday. This was BEFORE the incident at SFNE. Talking about a timely oppurtunity to be doing a news story on roller coaster safety.

Is anyone aware of parks outside of Massachusetts that are closing their T-bar restraint rides, or their Intamin rides? I would hate to see my Cedar Point trip this weekend be dampered by MF and TTD not being open. I missed MF last year due to a mechanical failure, and would hate to miss it again this year!

If he fell out in that banked turn everyone points to before the brakes, something doesn't add up. In a turn that heavily banked, with that much speed, the G forces are POSITIVE, meaning they are pushing you into your seat. It's the same G's that allow your butt to stay planted in the overbanked turns on Millennium Force. If he fell out there, he fell out sideways, straight to the ground. How did he "get thrown, spinning through the air, coming to rest against a fence?" Everything in that statement goes against the laws of physics. Of course, I thought the same thing when the guy fell out at SFDL, too. He was thrown during the bunny hops, how did he fall out of the side of the car? There are no lateral forces there. I understand how he was ejected if it were straight out of the train, but not sideways. It just doesn't add up at all...

Slfake, why would you assume I would not do my job if I worked in the industry? Just because I can take responsibility for myself when I ride at a park that does not check restraints all the time, that does not mean I won't do my job.

It could happen if the rider's CG is not over the seat when the train goes through the banked turn. That is, if the rider is already out of position, the force of the turn could yank him out of the seat.

Strictly hypothetical, of course. But that's why it's not entirely impossible.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

That's true Dave. The article says the woman was holding on to his waist before he flew out. If that is the case being that high above the seat and then having the train suddenly bank, it would be kinda like jerking the seat out from under him. The spinning that was reported could have been caused by him hitting the restraint on the way out.

ok ok already lets everyone meet at sfne and ride the superman ride to show everyone how safe it is and so they can open it so it would give us pass holders something to go there for (with out that ride sfne is dead) whos with me on this???

ShaneDenmark

I'm not sure if you've ever ridden SFNE's SRoS, but there are more than a little lateral G-forces on the final turn. I can easily see how he slipped out the side if he was on the left hand side of the train.

Such a shame all these factors added up to his untimely death .:(

JC

Coaster guts I recall seeing them do some filming over in GC at SFA when I was there on saturday as well.

We had just walked back up from superman after hearing it was closed & noticed a cameraman taking some shots of alpine bobs & later the sky coaster....of course we had no idea just what it was all about at the time.

SLFake: the restraints on the Intamin hypers will only go down if you push on them,the G's aren't enough to cause automatic stapling like they do on most woodies.

SFNE FANATIC: I went on SRoS(about 30 times)at SFNE in the
2003 season and i belive the ops had to check the belts twice
after the coaster car would not go.
What I am saying is i belive there is a senser that would not
allow the coaster to go if the belts are not clicked in all
the way.
So I think everybody would have to have there belt on or the
ride will not go

This just makes the whole industry look bad. I have never ridden a ride of this type, but I do believe it would be hard for somebody behind the rider to see if it was clicked down fully. However, she would be able to tell if the ride operators check the restraints. This is a bad thing for not only Six Flags, but all amusement parks in general. It will change the way people look at rides if it comes to be that this was the ride operators fault.

What do people think about the seat belts i talked about

Legendary- I've never ridden the SFNE version, but I've ridden Millennium Force more than a few times and SFDL's S:RoS more times than I can count. I know they aren't the same rides at all, and I was judging by the banking in pics I've seen that the Gs were mostly positive into the seat.

Can people, especially journalist, use the correct terminology? It's BRAKE, not break. If there were a break at the end of the ride, the train would fall off the track. The Intamin Hypers are well known for there extreme negative G-s. Hill number three on S:ROS at SFA or SFDL has you out of your seat the whole way over. The S-turn/bunnyhop following the second helix could easily through someone out of the train. I worked on a Skycoaster last year, and there are three people responsible for your safety. The first is the flight-suiter. The second and third people (I've forgotten the terms) are out on the flight path who load you into the ride. There is a system of checks that go on between the two people. After each part is hooked up, the parts are run through like this "Caribeeners locked, Clips" etc. After all checks are done, then the person on the ground says "Let's Fly". Trust me, there's a lot to a Skycoaster.

How weird, my screen name didn't show up. This was written by Intamin Fan.
*** This post was edited by 5/6/2004 10:28:36 PM ***

Coaster Buff, there are no sensors on the Intamin trains that prevent a train from being dispatched if the seatbelt is not fastened. There are no sensors to detect open lapbars either. In fact I can’t think of a single coaster anywhere that has those kinds of safety features.

^^ Yeah, what Rihard said. Again, to comment on what some have said about the rider being pulled out in the final corner... all accounts indicate he was leaning out of the car sideways prior to the turn. It is my opinion that he suffered a medical problem either unrelated or related to the ride, which left him hanging out. This is why in my opinion the people around him were trying to grab him coming through a straight series of bunny hills. He must have appeared to be in trouble, otherwise who would have grabbed for him. I have leaned out of S:ROS at many different points and never had anyone try to pull me in. Something happened to him before the last corner, I'm very convinced of that.

Hi all. I have been reading these posts for the past few days trying to get some more information on the tragic event at SFNE...just like we all have...and although I don't usually join in on forum discussions(for no particular reason), I could not let this one go. I was there, in line, with my father and witnessed the event.

We were in line essentially right where the train comes to a stop. It baffles me the amount of misinformation and speculation of what can/can't happen that gets released out there...even from eyewitnesses. Who knows if we will ever find out what REALLY happened and what was the TRUE cause of this terrible accident. But, there are a few details I would like to clear up.

First, having rode SRoS more times to count in the past few years I am very familiar with the ride, its restraints and the staff. Bottom line...if the restraints are not secured properly, you can and as we have seen this past weekend, WILL get thrown from the ride on the last turn before braking. It is a 90 degree turn to the right that is NOT banked as has been mentioned so many times. Anyone who has experienced this ride knows that 3 camel humps providing an unbelievable amount of air time precede this final turn. If this man, was not properly secured, and began coming loose from the previous air time, it is very possible that with his condition and an inability to hold on, that he'd be thrown from the train...and he was. G Force and physics would not push him into his seat on this part of the track...but instead, would force him in a straight line, up and out of the train, which happened to be toward a fence and tree, as the train abruptly turns right.

Second, I do not know what happened in the "loading area" regarding the shuffling of seats etc...but I can tell you that this man ended up in the 2nd Row of the Front car on the RIGHT side. I have read posts that state police reports have him in the front row left side, second row left side, the back of the train etc.... Not so. He was thrown from the Right seat, 2nd Row of the Front Car. As the train came to rest, the woman who was sitting next to him was in tears...right above us...and motioning to the attendants that he came out of his seat. She even held up his seatbelt. In addition, my father and I went over every other seat in the entire train and the ONLY empty seat was the Right seat, Second Row of the Front car. I know that in the end this shouldn't impact anything but it kills me to see all the speculation and mis information out there.

Inevitably, blame will end up being placed somewhere, and it probably will end up on SFNE, but I feel it is human error on both parties. This man had been on this ride numerous times before....he knew what he was in for. He knew how he should be secured in his seat. If he or anyone else on that train noticed that he or anyone for that matter, was not properly secured...they should have said something...ANYTHING, to get the attention of the ride operator. At the very least he, as the rider, should have taken the extra measures himself to be sure the T-Bar was secure. Now, not all blame is on him because ultimately it IS the responsibility of the ride operators to make sure EVERYONE is fastened in their seats before that train leaves. It shouldn't matter how long it takes. That is their job. End of story. So as far as I am concerned, both parties are at fault.

This is a terrible tragedy...one that shouldn't have ever happened. But hopefully we will all learn something from this. We all love these rides, thats why we keep coming back for more....but they CAN be dangerous when not taking the proper precautions. If at any time, you ever feel unsafe or not properly secured in your seat, say something....it is just not worth it. NO RIDE is worth it...

~ COASTER_BUD ~*** This post was edited by 5/7/2004 1:27:39 AM ***

Um...that turn is definitely banked.

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/rollercoasterphoto.htm?i=442

B&M's will NOT allow a train to dispatch with an open restraint. They have little lines on the base of the restraint and all of them must be showing for the dispatch to enable.

if it was human error on the ops' end, then shame on six flags. /shrug i know first hand how much six flags actually cares about safety. they preach safety but don't really give a damn unless it fits in the budget. that includes staffing. so where a ride could be run with skeleton crews, skeleton crews is what the ride gets, especially at the beginning or ending of a season...

i despise six flags. the one that i worked at was run by idiots with their heads up their a$$es. safety first, my ass. they don't care. at least the majority of the 'kids' that worked for me gave a damn. i dislike poor press of parks and coasters, but if this was human error on six flags' head, then i think i'll enjoy this guillotine.

btw, Intamin Fan...it's the AC (assistant controller) and Controller. and it goes "Clips, Carabeeners, Ripcord; Ready to fly" "Let's Fly"*** This post was edited by Tilia 5/7/2004 5:01:52 AM ***

well the one thing i wanna say is there is some kind of sensor on SFNE sros. i have been waiting in line before when ride ops were called by the operator to recheck a certain seat as he looked at whatever was in front of him. this is not to say they cannot dispatch the train without everything being correct. it just shows some sort of sensors.

and coasterbud, not to question another opposing eyewitness account, but how could he fly out of the right side of the train and get to the fence? that makes no sense.

and intamin fan, if you are going to correct others, its throw, not through (sorry, couldn't resist :-) )