Will a park ever buy another S&S 4D?

But how often does Busch build major coasters? There are 2 parks that build a major coaster every 4 or 5 years. Tampa is spoken for, so that leaves Williamsburg. I don't think Williamsburg has a 4-D on their shopping list, and I doubt anyone would gamble a $10million prototype on it. *** Edited 5/14/2004 4:43:55 AM UTC by Peabody***

Disney, Alton Towers group, universal, Asian Parks blah blah blah

Willl a park ever buy another S&S 4D? The answer is no. Yes, X is fun and yes, it would be cool if there were another. There won't be. Not from S&S.

Not likely....you think S&S should gamble their company's well being on a prototype in the hopes that one of those parks will buy? Disney doesn't build extreme coasters, universal just put coasters in their parks, and Asian parks are not doing well (4 or 5 parks in Japan alone closed in the last year or so)

The question still stands....why would S&S build another 4-D, this time in their back yard, as you said they should? Just trying to get what you're saying, because I don't.

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john peck said:

The design is sound.. Six Falgs went the cheap route on many of it's installation costs and wound up paying for it.

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Oh please, that's the most ridiculous thing I've read regarding X. The ride is a nightmare in more ways than one. It was essentially a piece of junk with far more than its fair share of problems, and that's exactly how it was delivered to Six Flags from Arrow. The only one to blame for the failure of the ride it Arrow itself.

As for Busch building a 4-D, that's also laughable. As I said in another thread, Busch is perhaps the most cautious company out there. They wrote Arrow (and Arrow products) off a long time ago. Since then, they've discovered B&M and have been so pleased they've stuck with B&M for nearly every single ride purchase. If you're expecting to see more rides at the Busch parks, expect them to be B&M rides.

Disney is in bed with Vekoma, and Universal seems to be in bed with B&M also. Short answer: don't expect another S&S/Arrow 4-D anytime soon.

-Nate

You could have made the same argument over Arrow's suspended coaster. Others were produced after the PKI's BAT screw up. Verkoma's flying coaster had it's fair share of problems and so does Intamin's rocket coasters. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:11:57 AM UTC by Cedar "Counter" Point***

Apples and oranges.

Peabody, I've already made my points.To bad you can't "understand" them. I explain no futher. Besides I think your still p*ssed about the weak statement you made about Arrow's first protype of the 4D. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:17:57 AM UTC by Cedar "Counter" Point***

Um.....what? I'm p*ssed about nothing. It makes no sense why S&S should spend millions on building another 4D in their back yard when there's already one operating daily. You have made no point other than saying "They should build..." Why should they? It makes no sense for them to. (Others further backed up my point above)

And no, I couldn't have made the same argument about the Arrow suspended....,they built no prototype after the Bat. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:27:11 AM UTC by Peabody***

Well, maybe the industry should just keep building and operating Intamin coasters they kill people but their capicity is great and the only down time is when someone dies or the launch fails. And I would consider The BBW @ Busch and XCR8 to be protos since no other suspended was produced untl three years after those two. So there! My point on building another is to build the coaster Arrow intended from the first place. Arrow wanted to build the ride much smaller than MM wanted them to build lending to the diffuculties of X. I'm done. I'm going to bed. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:39:02 AM UTC by Cedar "Counter" Point***

Um....maybe you should go to bed. none of that makes sense :)

#1 - Who's talking about Intamin

#2 - BBW and XLR8 were not prototype ...they were product delivered in exchange of payment, not built at Arrow's expense in their backyard. The Bat was not even the prototype....Arrow constructed the full scale suspended prototype in Utah before they built the Bat.

#3 - "So there!" So there what? Why should S&S build a prototype when no product has been purchased by a park? *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:53:05 AM UTC by Peabody***

#1 I did

#2 Prototypes can be produced at parks Dah.

#3 So they can show the industry on their own terms a working model with the modifcations and design improvements that works properly. Besides there is still an untapped market with this coaster. There is definately need for this type of coaster. It's one of the most innovative coasters ever produced. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:50:59 AM UTC by Cedar "Counter" Point***

I'm tired of a lost cause.

I concede....S&S should spend $10+ million dollars and gamble their entire company on building another 4D prototype in their backyard. I'm sure it's a wise business decision, although I don't remember them teaching that in business school ;) *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:50:59 AM UTC by Peabody***

Try a marketing approach

They have a sound marketing approach....what do you call them marketing the new improved 4D for the last 2 years at trade shows as they have? They don't even have to gamble their company's future on it.

Which makes more sense:

#1 - Market a ride, someone pays you $20 million for one, then you manufacture it.

or #2 - Build a prototype (of a ride which already exists) that costs a dozen or so million dollars and pray like hell that someone (in a VERY limited market) buys. *** Edited 5/14/2004 5:59:15 AM UTC by Peabody***

I'll buy one.....you DO accept IOUs, right? :)

But do you want me to build a prototype first? ;)

It was reported in a issue of First Drop of few months back, the issue with the IAAPA supplement that S&S HAVE sold another 4D to a Japanesse park, no names were mentioned!

I will not jump on your bizarre "Intamin coasters kill people" statement.

As for "prototypes": The word says it all, it is always the first of its kind. Therefore there can only be one (just like "Highlander" ;))

Arrow used to build a small prototype of the suspended-coaster to test it and show potential customers what the ride is all about. Lets forget the fact that they copied every mistake the builders of "Alpenflug" made five years earlier.
The question remains if they could have noticed the impending problems if they had build a bigger test ride.
But since every suspended coaster was custom made for a certain landscape (except the mobile "Alpenflug" and the standardized Vekoma versions) it would have been impossible to fabricate a full scale prototype at the factory.
BBW was not a prototype, it was an evolution of the failed first attempts. There was no need to build a new test ride, since Arrow just finished the ride which was designed and planned by Schwarzkopf, who was forced to abandon the project due to bankruptcy.
XLR8 was actually the first fully functional Arrow suspended, which used an Arrow design with the technical changes adopted from BBW.

Its pretty rare to build a full size proto. I think the first corkscrew incorporated the most of the track from the prototype into the final design. But there was not much more to the actual ride in the first place.
"Revolution" at SFMM used its prototype test track, which was build at the plant in germany in the final ride. It was just a lift, the ramp and the loop followed by a brake run. The ramp and the loop were then shipped to the US and incorporated into the ride.

AFAIK "Hypersonic" consists to a large part of the actual prototype. Of course there are many modifications to the original.

As for the original 4d design: It was much less thrilling than "X". I think they have a better chance to sell a 4d if they find a way to better its performance and reliability. I doubt that a 4d without a vertical drop will raise many eyebrows.

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Peabody said:
parks will buy? Disney doesn't build extreme coasters, universal just put coasters in their parks, and Asian parks are not doing well (4 or 5 parks in Japan alone closed in the last year or so)

*** Edited 5/14/2004 2:29:34 PM UTC by Cedar "Counter" Point***

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