Will a park ever buy another S&S 4D?

How is X running? Does MM have it running with all the train yet? Does S&S have any involvement with it? Will X just be a protype forever? Will another park have the b*lls to purchase one? Will B&M just rip the idea off and start selling them? what's the scoop?

X was running pretty well when I was there in March.

The only bad thing I found with the ride was the difference between the inside and outside seats. The inside wasn't too rough, maybe Magnum type rougth at most. But the outside seats had a much more noticable roughness to them.

But still an amazing ride, and I surely hope that more are built soon.

Let me check out my crystal ball....

Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce

Idle speculation... X is a large part of the reason that Arrow went under... er... I mean was bought by S&S. The coaster was something like... what $12 million over budget?

The five times I have been to the park since it was finished, it was open four of them. With ONE train operation. The only time I ever saw it running two trains was during the breif period between January 2001, and whenever it broke ... I think around March? May? of that year.

The last time I was at the park, X was open for exactly two hours. The last two hours of the day. This was during an early summer trip last year on a Sunday.

When I have ridden it, it has been fantastic. Due to the nature of the car, each side gives a slightly different ride. I prefer the very back on the "inside" or starbord side of the train.

B&M would probably be able to build something like X, but as far as I know, S&S owns all the patents, so it would have some differences if they did. They probably don't have any interest in doing so. Despite the fact that it is a fantastic ride when it runs, I have to think that NO park wants that headache... and undeserved or not, the 4D has a reputation.

I'd like to see another one, but I'm not holding my breath.

-Escher

"It's probably in my basement... let me go upstairs and check" -Escher

Do you think that thride is maintained or do you think it's a design flaw? How does the other Arrow's run Ninga, Gold Rusher, and Viper?

The old argument was Arrow had certain specs for the ride and Gary Story wanted to larger and taller. Arrow was foolish enough to try building their protype so large.

Remember, they built this thing at SFMM.

SFMM we all know is terrible for ride maintenance and upkeep due to their budgets. If Cedar Fair and Paramount had boughten this type of ride, they wouldn't have had half the trouble they have so far.

The design is sound.. Six Falgs went the cheap route on many of it's installation costs and wound up paying for it.

Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that sir, is an idiot. ~ Peter Griffin

S&S should build a working protype at their manufacturing plant. I wonder why S&S hasn't sold any of Arrow's rides or prototypes? S&S doesn't even list any of Arrow's rides on their website. The CCI division is doing well. The Arrow mystery continues.

john peck said:
If Cedar Fair and Paramount had boughten this type of ride, they wouldn't have had half the trouble they have so far.

Define "boughten"?

Dead men don't ride roller coasters. http://www.petefourwinds.com

No.....a working prototype would cost WAY too much money.....just doesn't make business sense.

Arrow presented their revised concept for the 4D 2 years ago at IAAPA. (Small trains, conveyor belt loading, etc) WIth the coaster boom behind us and purse strings tight across the board (along with the "failure" of X) means no takers.

I have a suspicion that if we ever see another 4D it will be from a different manufacturer.

Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce

pete4winds said:
Define "boughten"?

It's what the parks do before we "have rode" a ride ;)

Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce

If Arrow/S&S had any luck at all it would be bad luck. Always late right?

Peabody said:
No.....a working prototype would cost WAY too much money.....just doesn't make business sense.
Why? S&S made a working proto of Hypersonic and Screaming Squirrel. Stan wanted to build a park at one point to showcase his rides. Besides if Arrow built a working model it 's probably the only way for them to sell another one. Paramount bought Hypersonic.

They have a prototype called "X", (and the smaller prototype they built before that)

Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the smaller prototype a 15ft section of track in a warehouse or something? That's not much of a prototype if you ask me, but, before anybody says, nobody was asking me.

Weight lost to ride more coasters......90lbs

Peabody, the first proto wasn't even full scale it was (it looked no longer than 50ft long) I would call that a smaller version.

john peck said:
Remember, they built this thing at SFMM.
SFMM we all know is terrible for ride maintenance and upkeep due to their budgets. If Cedar Fair and Paramount had boughten this type of ride, they wouldn't have had half the trouble they have so far.
The design is sound.. Six Falgs went the cheap route on many of it's installation costs and wound up paying for it.

Erm... Okay, lets see here:

Cedar Fair doesn't experiment with new ride designs for the most part. When they have (TTD, for instance) they have been plagued with a lot of downtime.

Paramont has suffered a lot due to rides having tons of trouble. Lets see here -- OL:FOF opening WAY late, Son Of Beat, Volcano: The Blast Coaster, etc.

Okay, you're right. It is obviously Six Falg's lack of maintance that makes this first of a kind ride not function correctly.

Yeah, Cedar "Counter" Point...that's why I said the "smaller" one. :)

But, the point is to build a full scale prototype would probably require a $10 million dollar investment for them to construct one smaller than X. You just don't spend that kind of money, especially because there are only 3 or 4 potential customers, and chances are they won't buy one. (The squirell was a small investment, plus they could likely sell it. TA2K was also reletively small (bare bones) although more of an investment....there was also a good chance for them to sell it as well (at least the expensive parts of it).

Who would buy one? Not many parks can afford one ($20mil+). CF will likely not buy one until they see one operate well with a high capacity (darn near impossible). SF will not likely buy one because they got burned by X and are not happy with it, plus they are VERY low on cash. Paramount is not in the business of buying high dollar mega thrill rides anymore. Who does that leave that will pony up $20+ million. *** Edited 5/14/2004 4:30:06 AM UTC by Peabody***

Real Cbuzz quote of the day - "The classes i take in collage are so mor adcanced then u could imagen. Dont talk about my emglihs" - Adamforce

Busch

If you want to see the 4D prototype, there is a clip of it here: http://clik.to/rrcr

Unless they are do something very different, they don't need another prototype. X is the prototype and potential buyers can ride it. There were no Screaming Squirrels or Compressed Air Launched Coasters so that was different.