Why some PTCs without seatbelts?

I've heard horror stories about lapbars popping up on some PTC trains, namely Thunder Run (only one I can remember right now). This makes me wonder, how is it that some PTC trains can have no seatbelts, namely Phoenix and Twister. Don't get me wrong, I love Knoebel's, and the very fast loading/unloading, but just how safe are they?

I was riding with Brian when his lap bar popped up on Thunder Run's lift hill and I would not want to ride that one without seatbelts.

What kind of trains are on AE and Viper at SFGAm? They removed their seatbelts last year. I feel totally safe on those.

AE and Viper run with PTC trains, but Viper never had seatbelts, although I have heard that this year they are installing seatbelts on them. **It seems as if I was wrong, AE did at one point have seatbelts, but it didn't have seatbelts recently.** *** Edited 3/24/2004 2:35:50 AM UTC by Gamfan***

American Eagle did have seatbelts back in the 80's and early 90's. They also had a ratcheting lap bar and no seat dividers.

Gamfan, I rode both coasters with and without seatbelts. Or maybe just rode Psyclone one to many times. :)

I could even swear that at one time AE had one belt all the way across instead of one per rider.

Frank, who only rode Psyclone once

There has not been seatbelts on Viper, I know because I experienced a "lap bar malfunction" on that ride. Thankfully it was on a turn and not on the double dip, otherwise I proably would have been dead.

My dad had it happen to him on the Texas Giant, at the top of an airtime hill, thankfully either the seat belt stopped him or his own grip/legs under grab bar saved him; I cant remember if that one had seat belts.

Add me to the group that wants seat belts on PTCs.

Tonnerre de Zeus at Parc Asterix has no seatbelts.

Comet at Great Escape opened without seatbelts, but they came along when Premier bought the park I believe.

Talking about seatbelts... last summer, a guy claimed there was a lap bar failure on Monstre, at La Ronde (its runs Morgan trains, the single position lap bars), so the park added seatbelts to the bars... but not the riders!

Considering Phoenix has Single-position lapbars, not having a seatbelt is certainly an interesting experience. Anyone who has ridden will agree. I can't even begin to count how many times I've had my legs flat against the bottom of the lapbar. I'm not that small of a guy (5'9" 190lbs), so I can only imagine what it must be like for a 5-year old.

Well, it's not like there's any way you're going to get out from under that bar...

I'm very glad Phoenix has just a buzz bar and nothing else. For a 13 year old I'm not that big (5'3", 105), so I get a good feeling of ejection, and I love every second. It isn't like you need them on Twister since there isn't much air, but it always feels good to be "free" once in awhile..

I dont mind the seatbelts that much, you dont have to pull them as tight as they can possibly go on you and still be safe. If you just tighten the belts like you would in your car your butt will still come off the seat (your touch receptors cant distigush between 1 mm above the seat from 1 ft) but you will also be securely restrained.

Look at ToT those seatbelts are self tightening but I have never heard anyone complain about them cutting back on your air, what matters is how your stomach feels and as long as you get that wonderful tingle you wont hear a complaint out of me.

Let's not forget that the Beast (or any woodie at PKI) has no seatbelts.. I'm wondering how someone hasn't be ejected on the Beast.. what with all the airtime you get. :Oo

Let's not forget coasters that have NO restraints at all. The Roller Coaster at Blackpool only has a small grab rail to hold on to. Okay, there isn't very much airtime, but you could still fall out if you stood up.

Before the early 80's, the Grand National had no restraints at all, other than a horses pony tail to hold on to, and that ride has some massive ejector airtime, especially since back then it has an extra car.

Also, I remember an article about Perilous Plunge, if the woman had been holding on, she wouldn't have fallen out.

If people held on whilst riding there probably wouldn't be any need for restraints on woodies at all, except SOB.

Will someone kindly explain to me where all the "airtime" is on The Beast. I've been riding that coaster for years, and I can't figure out where it all is. But I keep hearing about all this "airtime" on the ride. (I'm just trying to understand) *** Edited 3/24/2004 1:04:14 PM UTC by Thrillerman***

Thing is, you can't RELY on people holding on to stay in the car. What if someone passes out, or isn't paying attention and releases their grip?

Roller Coaster at Blackpool may not have restraints, but they're also not needed if you're just riding, holding on or not. "Personal rider responsibility" goes a lot farther in Europe than it does in America, and if a rider misbehaves (ie stands up or does something else equally stupid), the park won't be held liable. Here, the attitiude unfortunately is "Yes, he was a dumbass, but you still should have prevented him from being able to..."

I prefer having seatbelts, actually. Enthusiast crybabies could learn something by actually pulling them tight and seeing what happens. I've learned that a tight belt doesn't reduce air at all. It in fact gives you all the float, only it's a soft, flexible object that conforms to your shape to hold you in, compared to a hard, rigid object that does little more than bruise you after a few rides (see: The Legend).

I would feel more comfortable with Viper if it had belts. That's one of only a few coasters I will hold on to the assist bar the entire way through.

I didn't know Phoenix has only buzzbars and no seatbelts. I realize that stronger safety measures are required these days, and I honestly don't mind seat belts at all, but I do miss the days of single buzzbars. It's hard to imagine now, but I remember riding Grizzly and Rebel Yell before they had seatbelts, seat dividers, and even headrests. The trains on Kennywood's Thunderbolt are still this way, and of course those that have ridden it know that the park does not allow single riders due to the lack of seatbelts and dividers, and the extreme laterals the coaster produces. Has Thunderbolt always required two riders per seat, or is this a relatively recent thing? Does Knoebels also have this requirement on Phoenix? I really do need to get up there this year.

As far as I can tell Rebel yell & Grizzly don't have lap belts & never did...although from what I hear about Carowinds adding the belts to Hurler I don't think it'll be too much longer before PKD follows suit.

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(see: The Legend).

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And Magnum. I'm a big fan of a tight belt on Magnum. For that matter, I like to have a snug fit on Ghostrider, too.

Yeah, Magnum is the other example I frequently use. Since I always end up in 1-3 for some reason, I pull that thing tight every time, and I suffer no ill consequences.