Why is CP still advertising TTD?

I flew in from Las Vegas for coastermania! As many would expect, I was upset that it was not running. I obviously will not get a chance to ride it, as the time and cost factor of a return trip make it very unlikley, until next year at the earliest. I totally understand that mechanical breakdowns happen, and I'm sure the park is doing all it can to get this thing running! I do not and will not fault the park for issues that are beyond their reasonable control. What I DO NOT UNDERSTAND is the continued advertisements. This IS in their control. They have the power to stop all advertisement for this ride, or at the very least be honest with their advertisements and let people know that their chances of riding this thing on any given day at the park is well below 20%! I know they probably payed for these advertisements in advance, but Cedarfair should have the courtesy to pull all of their advertisements for the worlds tallest non-operating park sign! I've seen the CP defenders on this board (I'm new to the board--but I've got 327 coasters to my name) and am sure that this will upset some of you! However, there is no excuse for the advertising they have done and continue to do for this thing. A "soft" opening with plently of time to test reliability would have been a much better way of handling this before a nationwide media blitz! But I guess that would do nothing to increase 2003 attendance would it? Hmmmmm.....I wonder why they keep advertising this thing when they know darn well it is nowhere near ready for daily operations w/o lenghty breakdowns? I've tried to get a response from anybody at CP about why they keep advertising this thing, but nobody can give me a straight answer! In my book---it is outright deceit! They should be ashamed---not because of the breakdowns---this could happen to any park---but because of their unwillingness to pull advertisements or at least be honest with their advertisements! It is a real shame!

P.S.---To add insult to injury....On my return flight to Vegas from Cleveland on Continental airlines, they have an advertisement for TTD on the plane screens! Just what I needed after my $1200 trip (wife went with me) to ride all the rides I had already been on numerous times before!!! What is a man to do? :-)

Oh well. That sucks.

SFOG pulled Deja Vu ads after they realized its problems weren't going to be resolved in a timely manner. Maybe the park anticipates the ride to reopen fairly soon. It's only been down about a week, after all.

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Is that a Q-bot in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
*** This post was edited by General Public 6/11/2003 5:11:52 PM ***

It's quite simple. TTD is the tallest and fastest coaster in the world. It would be insane not to advertise for that.

Because ad buys are done often months in advance and cancelling purchased airtime in any media equals hefty kill fees. Plus, any advertising done 'out of market' isn't designed to get people to the park tomorrow. It's building awareness with the hopes they'll plan a trip later this year or maybe even next year, by which time TTD should be running quite reliably.

I do a gree they shouldn't be purchasing any new, local ads until it's operational again. I believe there was a class action lawsuit the year DejaVu opened at SFGam, or rather the year it barely opened. They advertised the 'two new coasters' thing pretty heavily all through the summer, knowing one wasn't going to be operational anytime soon. I'd say that's a different case, though, as TTD _was_ operational.
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Touchè, teacher, touchè.

Lies.. deciet.. false advertising? Sounds like a job for the CPO!

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Kevin Stone
NoLimits Roller Coaster Simulator
http://www.nolimitscoaster.de

Jeffrey,

GP nailed it. TTD is a groundbreaking mechanical device. Like any other new mechanical device of similar (or lesser, for that matter) complexity, it will experience technical issues. Trust me, Cedar Point is working to resolve TTD's problems in the timeliest manner possible. Concerning the most recent problem, the fact is that there is no way they could see it coming. It's my understanding that they explained this and apologized to the Coastermania attendees. If a simple, honest apology is not good enough for you, then I suspect that you will remain unsatisfied.

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Rich Genthner / PTC99

The advertising is paid for. Besides, the ride will likely be up in a couple of days, if not sooner.

I also get the strong impression that even if they didn't do one bit of advertising, you would have done your best to get there and try to ride it anyway (or so I would assume if you've been on that many rides).

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

I sure hope it will be running in a couple of days. I'm going up there next week on the 18th, and can hardly wait! :)

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YOUNGSTOWN 2010

"It's my understanding that they explained this and apologized to the Coastermania attendees. If a simple, honest apology is not good enough for you, then I suspect that you will remain unsatisfied."

TCKR:

They most certainly did apologize for the breakdown! They were professional and did their best to accomodate an obvious "downer" situation for all involved. I accepted this apology for the breakdown and due not hold them at fault for the breakdown! In case you have not noticed the key word is "breakdown"!

They offer no apology for their prior and continued advertisement of this so far, quite flawed ride! It is the advertisement that bothers me! I have read and understand (in fact I pointed this out in my original post) that they have already paid for this advertisemnent. I believe that after 25 million spent on TTD that they could afford to temporarily eat a few advertisement dollars in order to appropriately deal with PR! They, for whatever reason you choose to believe, have chosen to keep their advertisement campaign for this ride in full force. They know full well that to date, this has been a flawed device. They have no track record whatsoever that would indicate that they could reasonably anticipate that TTD will run without unreasonable delays anytime in the near future. In fact, recent history (SOB, Xcelerator, XLC, etc.) would indicate that next year is when this thing will be ready to go. I think Cedarfair has made a huge miscalculation with respect to their decision to advertise this ride prior to the gates opening this year. I further believe that they are compunding this mistake by their decision to continue the advertisements at this time.

My general point is that Cedarfair, and specifically Cedar Point, have screwed the PR of this thing up royally. I believe that a "soft" opening is always the best route to use when attempting to implement original concepts and ideas for mass public consumption! They got burnt on this one!

There is no doubt that a ride geek such as myself will come back and spend my hard earned dollars to ride this thing. They have me by the neck. However, my brother made the trip up from TN to ride this thing. He is not the enthusiasts that I am. I am certain that somebody like him WILL NOT be back any time soon. As a matter of fact, he has commented, without my prompting, that he thinks it is BS that they are advertising this thing. His co-workers canceled a trip this weekend on his advice! It is this type of "word-of-mouth" negativity that I do not think CP really wants or needs.

I KNOW that CP will see an increased attendance and profit from this ride whether it runs as originally anticipated or continues the present status. However, I do believe that their PR decisions with respect to advertisement will cost them attendance and ultimately profits that they otherwise could have had. They are not going to get as high a return on their 25 million dollar investment as they could have because they chose to advertise a broken machine. I'm not sure how many people this will affect, but I do know that my brother's friends are going to PKI instead of CP this weekend. Nobody at either park is going to ride 400 feet plus in the air at 120 mph! They need to pull their advertisements now, before they upset any more of the general public!

If TTD were closed for the summer, I could see your point. But this is only two weeks. With the advertising paid for and scheduled, they don't really have much choice. All their advertising probably mentions TTD, and you don't exactly create a new advertisement overnight and substitute it for the old ones (except at extreme expense), all for exactly 14 days of advertising. In addition, suddenly removing all mention of TTD would encourage all sorts of rumors among the GP about what happened to TTD (accidents, deaths, massive malfunctions, closed for summer, etc).

But what if it is up and running by this weekend. The GP that you claim would be upset by going this weekend and finding TTD down would in turn be happy and the advirtising would be a success. Remember, a lot of that advirtising is trying to lure guests to the park this summer, if the ride is going to be up relativeliy soon, it would make no sence to cut it all out now.

As for a soft opening, I dont think it would help this ride too much. The ride has been open for over a month or so and just now has it had a lengthy (if you call 1 week lengthy) downtime. The ride prob. needed this much use and abuse to make some of these insidents happen.

I am willing to guess right now that X has had more downtime this year than TTD. I am going out to SFMM around July 4th and am trying to figure out the best day to go where that ride will be operating. Granted X isnt a new ride this year, but there are prob. still many many people who are going to SFMM mainly to ride X this year. I bet SF is still advirtising for it, even when it is down every Wednesday (and now some Thursdays).

Back to TTD... if @ Coastermania they thought they might have it up and running, who is to say they are not still thinking that same thing. Thinking that "maybe today will be the day" that it is up for riders.

I think many people are complaining about this because this is a little uncommon for a Cedar Fair park (from what I understand). If this were to happen @ any Six Flags park, would this even be mentioned or would you all just say it is typical Six Flags behavior?
*** This post was edited by onceler 6/11/2003 6:51:54 PM ***

Jeffrey,

I was hoping that you would "see the light" by my reinforcing of your own point. Allow me to reiterate the main points I was trying to make. There is no way that CP could see any of TTD's problems coming. They are working as quickly as possible to get the ride up and running reliably again. Most rational people, including members of the general public, understand this. Therefore, there is no good reason to pull the advertising for TTD.

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Rich Genthner / PTC99

Soft openings work well in the year-round parks. Disney World and Universal Orlando in Florida have their new rides up for weeks before they begin advertising them as open.

Cedar Point isn't as fortunate. Let's say it isn't until July when the ride is running consistently. If Cedar Point starts advertising then it's a waste of money because only locals will drive up on week's notice. By that time the family in Sacramento and the couple from Portland have already booked their summer travel plans.

But Jeffrey's claim is valid. Even if the ads have been paid for, if the coaster has been down for a week now -- and been closed more than open so far this season -- it's only right to either tack on a disclaimer to the existing ad or just use last year's ads with the purchased ad slots.

Ads get changed all the time during a campaign. Tacking on an "opening later this summer" is not only the right thing to do, it is the only non-deceptive thing to do.

Paris,

Last year's ads are not a valid option as they feature a "new for 2002" attraction. However, I agree that adding a disclaimer to the current ads would be a smart move - something along the lines of, "Check cedarpoint.com or call 419-627-2350 for the operating status of Top Thrill Dragster."

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Rich Genthner / PTC99

Last year's ads are not a valid option as they feature a "new for 2002" attraction.

Well, for the past week and various pockets of time before that the "new for 2002" attraction HAS been the latest attraction. I was just suggesting that because those ads have already been made.

Let the new ads sell the expanding on-site resort options or just folks having fun in the park. But a simple "coming in 2003" or any kind of vague implication that the ride is not exactly open should accompany any shots of Top Thrill Dragster. Until the ride is open MOST of the time it is just deceitful to advertise it.

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Paris said:
Until the ride is open MOST of the time it is just deceitful to advertise it.

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Not necessarily considering that CP expects the ride to open and run reliably as soon as it’s fixed. That could be tomorrow for all you and I know, and quite possibly for all they know. It makes no sense to change the adverts if that's the case. In our case, perhaps we should agree to disagree. :)

At least CP is giving a status report of the ride on its website and info line. That's a heckuva lot more than I've seen some other parks do regarding their broken "groundbreaking" rides.

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Rich Genthner / PTC99

I see both sides to this argument.

Yes, it is a shame it is down and it is a shame that they are continuing to pound the advertising but it is very difficult to remove those advertisements. The very unfortunate thing is that nearly every Intamin coasters has moderate to severe operating problems in the months after it's opening. As enthusiasts we need to be patient in this downtime.

However, on the arguing side, the majority of those going to the park are NOT enthusiasts and do not come to the park more than once a year. Two weeks is almost an eternity to have the star coaster down with the attendence numbers CP get.

On the other hand, I'm sure CP realizes that and they are doing EVERYTHING in their power to get it up and running to a 110% safe standard that will thrill the guests the way the ride was built to do so. We really can't do anything about the advertisements, like I said, they're doing everything to get it up again.

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Warning: I do not think like the average person. My remarks have plenty of thought behind them. Take it for what it's worth, if you disagree, please, feel free to express it, but don't put me down because of it.

That's just it, it's an *Intamin* ride... shouldn't they have known that there were going to be problems at first? Xcelerator for instance... we all know it had it's share of problems, as well as all of the S:ROS' and even MF (but not at first did it?).

Either way it's a machine, and machines break, if CF were to pull advertisements, then so should SF/Paramounts/Universal/Disney whenever they open a new coaster... because Machines tend to break, it's what they do best. After all... we're all reading this on a COMPUTER right? ;)

I think that them still advertising it is kinda stupid but at the same time, it's the tallest/fastest coaster... go with it!

I'd be ticked off if I came from far away too (as for me, i'm only 5.5 and compared to you thats not far). I do know that I went the first four days of operation and the thing wasn't up half of the time... It seems to always be down whenever it IS up... even those who go to the park when it IS open, aren't guaranteed a ride. This thing has it's problems, and in the long run we'll see if it was worth it

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"I'm starting to doubt your comitment to Sparkle Motion"

While I was waiting in line for Coaster Mania I heard several announcements that TTD will be closed and if it is the reason you were there you should consider not going in. Thats fine for local people but you were stuck there until your return flight.

I had the same problem when I went to Knotts back in 2001. We (Coaster Zombies) had some early morning ERT on Ghostrider scheduled. When we got to the park they had it's yearly matainance that week! We didn't ride Ghostrider that day.

CP is one of the biggest destination parks in the world and gets media attention worlwide. As Jeff stated even if they didn't advertise TTD I'm sure 75% of the people at Coaster Mania still would have gone there to ride everything else regardless. It sucked TTD was down but it was still a fun filled 17 hours at Cedar Point. At least they didn't replace ERT for TTD with Mean Streak!

So Jeffery... What did you do with your two TTD exit passes? Old pal, old buddy! :)

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Signature will be closed today. Sorry for the inconveinance.

Not necessarily considering that CP expects the ride to open and run reliably as soon as it’s fixed.

TCKR, I guess we will have to ultimately agree to disagree, and that's cool. But why would CP have any reason to believe that the ride will be running reliably any time soon? I think everyone was willing to blow off the chain break. It happens. This recent snafu where the ride's been down for a week and change? It happens. But put it all together, and analyze the ride's operating history since media day, and I think it's just naive for CP to keep pumping out the TTD ads under the assumption that the ride is going to run reliably day in and day out for some time.

You can't eat both ends of the cake. If it irks you to have someone complain that they went to the park and the ride was closed because they should know better then you can't argue that CP thinks the ride will be running on a consistent basis either.

At least CP is giving a status report of the ride on its website and info line. That's a heckuva lot more than I've seen some other parks do regarding their broken "groundbreaking" rides.

Absolutely. I'm not knocking the park. I think, in the park, they have been champs about putting up with this very unfortunate situation. My beef was just about the ads. That's just wrong, to me.