Why have Arrow Coasters Aged so Poorly

What do you think causes Arrow coasters to have been known for their poor aging and roughfness? Design flaws, Trains, Supports.... Many say that Arrows are roughf, but Vortex at KI (or as I like to say "Bat-Tex") has seemed to age better than other Arrows.

Who says they weren't like that when they opened? Perhaps we're all just used to the silky smooth ride on B&M rides.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I am only 15 so I was to young to ride GASM when it opened but I heard it used to be silky smooth.

Viper at SFDL was built in 1982 and it has aged great. It isn't rough at all other than a little through the boomerang. It must depend on the coaster on how well it ages.

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Jeff said:
"Who says they weren't like that when they opened? Perhaps we're all just used to the silky smooth ride on B&M rides.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade""

Amen!
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The roughest part of a B&M is having to get off.

I dunno, maybe they just havn't been taken care of that well. I mean Loch Ness at BGW is just as smooth as any B&M I've been on.
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Lochness and Anaconda are great and smooth rides...ok, the 'Conda has this one little spot..but it's still awsome;)

I personally think that B&M will always make the best rollercoasters, and they dont even need to make the tallest or fastest coaster for it to be the best

Think of computers in the 80's. Did they have the same enginerring and technolgy of the ones today? Now think of when these ARROW's were built. Yes my friends the 80's. Arrow even though they figuerd how to make a coaster exceed 200 ft and go up side down, didn't have the spring loaded weels to stay on the track.

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Good Point Todd. I'm not Arrowbashing by any means, I'm just wondering why Arrowcoasters seem to get worse as they age (DFire, SPhantom). I consider Vortex, Loch Ness, and Magnum (#1) among the best coasters ever. I wish Arrow the best of luck and I hope 'X' opens soon.

I agree with Todd - The computer has been drastically improved since 1990, and the coasters are a result of better engineering. I rode shockwave in 1990, and I rode it two months ago. Seemed the same to me.

The reason (I think) that Nessie was smooth was the only inversions were vertical loops, which Arrow is OK with. Normally, their corkscrews are a little rough, but PKI's Vortex is a little better is because there's less speed in that section. Maggie, with no inversions is also real smooth...even SP was nice through the verical loop, I thought...it was rough after that, though!
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Doesnt it mostly boil down to the wheel design not hugging the track through the circuit? Thats the impression I got. Jeff makes a good point. After all of the B&M and Intamin steel masterpieces, it kind of makes the Arrow designs seem worse but in reality I dont think they have changed much.
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Of course, there is the issue of how you maintain your ride. Look at Cedars Corkscrew (1976) and Geauga's Double Loop (1977) (which to me run very smooth) vs Vortex (1987) and Dragon Mountain (1983) which don't.

I get a heck of a lot more vibrating on Vortex and Dragon (even while maintaining a lower speed) It seems clear to me that it all has to do with maintaining the trains .

The wheel spacing makes perfect sense since occasionally you see an Arrow train that shuffles. (Vortex on that first drop)

Some age worse than others, I agree. I am an Arrow fan, I love their coasters, but it seems that there have been some design faults, but I believe much of it comes down to maintenance, look at Desperado for example, it was built, correct me if I'm wrong, in 1994, and it seems to be rougher than the oldest woodies! There are some very old (early 1980's) Arrow coasters at lesser known parks around the place which are really quite smooth. Many parks don't replace the wheel's on rides often, particularly the big chain parks, and most of the typically rougher Arrow coasters will have smooth seasons every now and again, when the wheels are changed.
I have never rode it myself, but I'm told Iron Wolf, B&M's first coaster ever, isn't exactly as smooth as it once was. I am not out to get B&M, but this just proves that all coasters will inevitably age without proper maintenance.

*** This post was edited by Richard Wilson on 11/3/2001. ***

Medusafanatic said:
I am only 15 so I was to young to ride GASM when it opened but I heard it used to be silky smooth.

I doubt it. Though I wasn't on Shockwave the year it opened (I don't think a 3 year old would enjoy that!), my parents were. They said it was just as rough as it is now.
And that said, and considering GASM is a near-exact clone, except for being red and 3 or so feet taller, I don't think it could be "silky smooth."
But a smooth Arrow, Demon at SFGAm is fairly smooth. It does whip you out of your seat in the back seats on the first drop, thats about the only point where you could be uncomfortable in the first 1/2 of the ride. In the 2nd 1/2 of the ride, it's only rough at the point where you enter the 1st corkscrew. Thats probably just because you suddenly change direction.

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Do spring loaded wheels tend to 'hug' the track better than non-spring wheels that may 'wabble'?
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Unlike woodies, there isn't much in terms of track maintenance that can effect the smoothness of a steel coaster. While overstressing could possibly distort track, changes in the behavior of a steel coaster track are most likely to come from foundation settlement.

Poor maintenance of the trains is probably the only thing that is likely to make a steel coaster get significantly rougher. However, in most cases it think that rough Arrows just started out as rough Arrows and stayed that way.

I can vouch that GASM was smooth when it opened. I remember complaining that in comparison to Rolling Thunder (which was good back then also) it was too smooth, and it was like riding in your car. The problem I've heard is that they replaced some pieces of track, and they didn't fit correctly. As for someone saying that Anaconda is smooth, I'm going to leave that one alone.

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Wheel hugging on older Arrows isn't going to fix anything. The flaw is in the violent transitions. Watching Vortex at PKI you can spot the rough spots from the ground just by looking where the train jerks into a certain position. It's the same motion you see on Shockwave/Viper/GASM as they enter the mid-course. Ouch!

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"