Why do people think that Arrow Loopers are painful?

Orient Express was never that painful my favortie ride at WOF still to this day and it's not even there anymore. Maybe that will change with Patriot.

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SFDL Viper said:I would like to try Vortex, but I don't know how long its' line is, since it's a huge roller coaster, and attracts lots of people. And on Vortex, do riders get to choose where they sit, or is it first come first serve? I want to ride Vortex in the front seat, since the front gives the best view and gives an awesome ride.

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Like everyone else said, Vortex is a people eater. Lines will be the last thing you have to worry about on that ride. Even if the queue extends outside of the station (which it often does), waits aren't any longer than 10 to 15 minutes.

Unlike Italian Job Stunt Track, you do get to decide where you want to sit on Vortex. If you want to wait for the front (or back) seats you are more than capable of doing so. Expect an extra 5+ minutes in line, but it is well worth it once you experience the awesome hang time in those corkscrews. *** Edited 9/3/2005 5:25:22 PM UTC by CoasterKrazy***

The only coaster I've rode that I would consider "painfull" is SOB, but that is a' whole 'nother topic. :)

Some Arrows have a transition problem, like they built the ride useing RCT technology. It's all about the banking, and if it is too soon or too late in relation to where the turn is. This problem may or may not cause a rider to get bumped in the side of the head by the OTSR.

...And I'm pretty much just saying what others here are saying, just rewording it a little.

Tina, I remember Vortex's first year also. Boy, that was a long time ago. ;)

^I remember opening year very well, as well as King Cobra's. Both coasters didn't hurt so bad then. lol. KC's final years were just........ugh.

-Tina

I loved Marineland's coaster. It's secluded on that hill, and that dive into the tunnel in the hill is great. I had a problem with the park, it's 5 rides spread over 2 miles. Anyway, I think they are pretty smooth. A few head bangs doesn't really matter to me. Viper is a great ride. The only coasters that I really hate are those Boomarang coasters, with lots of head banging on the way back.

^Most boomers I will not really ride anymore unless it's a new coaster or if a friend wants to ride it. The one at Wild Adventures is the smoothest Boomerang I have been on.

I love Marineland, period. Very beautiful, quiet, charming park. Lots of walking, but a very interesting park. You probably won't see me riding Dragon Moutain again, though. ;-)

I did CP's Corkscrew for the first time this year in like 5-6 years, and only because I was with a newbie. It wasn't rough but it wasn't too comfortable either. I know that is one coaster that CP will never get rid of........it looks too pretty on the midway. :-)

-Tina

I've found the Carolina Cyclone at Carowinds to be one of the roughest Arrow looping coasters that I've ever ridden. Trust me, this thing will beat you up!

It's all about the transitions. A textbook example would be Anaconda at PKD. Immediately following the first two inversions, you hit a midcourse-brake. That should tell you a lot right there. But no, it gets worse. You enter the butterfly turns and you can clearly see (either off the ride or on) that the turns are not smooth at all. As someone said, it kind of looks like the turns in RCT.

To end this debate once and for all, before Arrow got bought up by S&S, they fully admitted on their website that they had new technology to go back and fix rough transitions. When the designer is admitting fault with its own technology, can't we just let this topic die?

The LOOPS themselves.....not bad. Shame is Arrow fell in love with those Godawful corkscrews...well, and their trains "plain suck"....and they didn't understand BANKED turns...

But vertical loops *period*, that they were OK with....witness Nessie, STILL a great ride (well, good..great is when all the "lair effects" are working). WoF's Orient Express, to me at least, was nowhere NEAR the ride that Nessie is...

Love their mine trains, but once it inverted, Arrows (and their blasted OTSR's) grew more painful...Of the *megaloopers*, only Viper really strikes me as a "rerideable" coaster...

X was *way* too troublesome, and TT was also too late in coming...and by then Arrow's fate was sealed...:(

One thing I noticed was if you really supported your head on arrow/vokoma loopers there really is no head banging at all. Even on boomerangs this has worked. Athlough for SLC's, they will always be rough.

You don't need to use your hands to support your head, you just need enough strength in your neck to control your head.

Just something that worked for me.

For me, Vekoma were worst and managed to create... Goudurix. With Arrow trains, strangely, it wasn't that bad, but once they changed to the rounded Vekoma trains, everything went downhill.

Problems are... lack of banking on turns. Best shown on the last turn into the brakes. Good banking... till halfway through it, the train hits a small "hill" in the helix, causing everyone's head to smash the restraints. The Butterfly... the most evil element ever. From the ground, you can see everyone's head smash into the restraints a few times! Add a lack of "Resistance" of the Vekoma tracks and on some steel rides, the ride has washboarding and shuffle like a need maintenance woodie!

As for Arrow rides... the turn into the corkscrews is murder! You start going up in the corkscrew... while still being banked? Normal your head will get beated up.

The only rough roller coasters I can think of are woodies and Vecoma-Boomerangs. The Bat at PCW bashed my head a couple of times and made me dizzy. For tall people, it doesn't matter if the shoulder harness is not pointed down enough. As long as the harness is locked, you will not fall out. It's the short people that get their head bashed on arrow loopers, especially little kids. Arrow Loopers also have the shortest lines for their coasters. I don't remember waiting more than 20 minutes for an arrow looper. Vecoma Boomerangs can have an hour wait. PCW's Dragon Fire doesn't have a line at all. The queue line is a walk on. The only wait is for the seat you choose. The front always has a small line, while the other seats don't. On MarineLand's Dragon Mountain, I noticed something really strange. The back seat for this roller coaster had a LONGER wait than the FRONT! On my latest MarineLand visit, Dragon Mountain was running 1 train, and I waited 10 minutes, and sat in seat 1.1 . Strangest thing I ever seen. I ride Arrow Loopers only in the front, the same goes for other types of roller coasters. I just hate it when the headrest in front of you blocks the view. The Viper at Darien Lake has a walk-on queue, but the queue path is long, and twisted, but who gives a damn? Viper is worth the long queue path. PKI's Vortex is the next Arrow Looper that I will try.

Not that it would provide any return on investment at all, but I'm convinced that if parks were to remove the OTSR from Arrow coasters they would just as enjoyable as any Premier that has had the same treatment. I found pre-lap bar Flight of Fear to be much more painful than Vortex at PKI. Just as Schwarzkopf coasters can be murder with OTSR, I think Arrows would be awesome without.

Arrow corkscrews are awesome even with the headbanging and restricted view, just imagine how they would be with lap bars; you're already banked even before the elevation change, making for some of the best "falling fear factor" on any coaster, as far as I'm concerned. From as close to the ground as any corkscrew model, or as high as Vortex, you just can't get that feeling with Intamin/B&M corkscrews.

Arrow loopers throw my head from side to side, or back into the headrest so much that it gives me a head and neck ache. It has nothing to do with the restraints since my head doesnt come near them.

Of the Arrow Loopers I've ridden the late Steel Phantom was representitive of what their problems were. Simple put, the transitions were brutal. I've seen a picture of Ann Hughes (the former head of Kennywood's Marketing Dept.) sitting in the front seat with a reporter, wearing an old style leather pilots helmut. It wasn't for effect, it was really to protect her ears!

SFDL Viper, are you short? I notice that people who's heads/necks don't match the height of the sholder restraints tend to get a smoother ride; shorter people. And, yes, vekoma boomerangs are rough, but arrows are just as rough for me.

^ agree. I never noticed a problem with the restraints for all arrows up until this year. Especially after riding nessie [no not nessie the dreamy dragon, SFDL's old name for the bug] which pinned me in pretty badly and uncomfortably. The older you get the worse the restraints get :P

^That too. ;-)

CoasterFreak55, I am a tall person. I am 6'2. I once rode Dragon Fire and a little kid was sitting next to me in the front. And I saw how that kid got thrown from one side of the seat to another. That kid's head was in pain, while I got a smooth ride.

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CoasterKrazy said:
Not that it would provide any return on investment at all, but I'm convinced that if parks were to remove the OTSR from Arrow coasters they would just as enjoyable as any Premier that has had the same treatment.

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I'm pretty convinced that there *is* sufficient ROI to justify retrofitting the old Arrows with Premier-style thigh/ankle restraints....after Paramount decided to retrofit the first of them, there was a *push* for other parks to do the same...that was based on RIDERSHIP figures. SF didn't just go nuts and "decide" to fix their Premier rides, they did it when they saw the lines for FoFs jump *drastically*....I know from my experience that ALL of the park guests (not just enthusiasts) FELT the change....and it was a really great change...

Any park that plans on KEEPING their older Arrow, should consider making them more enjoyable...for their "guests"...it's just good hospitality... :)