Why do people think that Arrow Loopers are painful?

I would like to know why some people think that Arrow Looping roller coasters are painful. Arrow Loopers are actually comfortable. It's the woodies that need the desperate repairs. The Arrow Loopers I been on are PCW's Dragon Fire, MarineLand's Dragon Mountain, and SFDL's Viper. None of them were painful at all. They all delivered a smooth and comfortable ride. Double Corkscrews, the Batwing, and the Bowtie aren't painful. They are just inversion elements on the arrow loopers. I don't know how people get their head bashed on these roller coasters, and that is what I am trying to figure out, since I never got my head bashed on these looping coasters.

Tip: Vecoma-Boomerangs can be more painful than Arrow Loopers.

Because most Arrow coasters have terrible train designs and poor transitions, and some poor engineering. I personally don't have much of a problem, but the roughest steelies I've ridden were mostly Arrow. This isn't really an opinion, you can see it yourself.

Unfortunately, Tennessee Tornado came too late in the game for Arrow. Had all their steel coasters been designed like that, they'd still be a major player, and you'd see just as many Arrow hypers, loopers, and such popping up as you do Intamin and B&M. Maybe even a few other types, and a better 4D...

they are smooth, but some transitions can be rough on the head/ears if you don't know how to brace yourself correctly so people call them rough. I just think it's poor design of the restraints they are complaining about.

-- alan jacyszyn

Because many of them are. You happen to be lucky, SFDL Viper in that the ones you have ridden (Dragon Fyre, Dragon Mountain, and Viper) are all really good rides. For comparable ride quality you could also ride BGW's Loch Ness Monster, Geauga Lake's Double Loop, Dollywood's Tennessee Tornado, or to a lesser degree, Cedar Point's Corkscrew. To get an idea of what people are complaining about, you need to ride some of the mid-generation Arrow loopers, starting with Kings Island's Vortex (which isn't really too bad), Kings Dominion's Anaconda, Worlds of Fun's dearly departed Orient Express, BGW's dearly departed Drachen Fire, or as I understand it (I never rode it) Six Flags Great America's dearly departed Shock Wave.

I need to get out more. I haven't ridden most of the 'bad' Arrow loopers that are still operating...!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I've ridden Shockwave (defunct), Viper at SFMM, Anaconda, Vortex, Carolina Cyclone, Corkscrew @ MBP (defunct), Corkscrew @ CP, Double Loop, Tennessee Tornado, Canyon Blaster, and I believe that is all.

TT is by far the smoothest Arrow of any type I've ridden. Canyon Blaster, Double Loop, and Cyclone are a close second, the others were either okay or tolerable. However, there is the fact that I know how to ride an Arrow, and with some Arrows, the thinner the OTSR, the less headbanging (I'm tall and have a long neck).

The only one that I could ever consider not at all rough is TT. The rest have potental, but I liked almost all of them. In fact, I like Arrow myself. My first looper was Cork @ MBP. Headbangy? Sure. But that was what started this whole mess, and it taught me a valueable lesson on defensive riding ;).

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SFDL_Dude said:
if you don't know how to brace yourself correctly so people call them rough.

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That statement says a lot right there. You shouldn't have to "know how to brace yourself" to make a coaster enjoyable. Part of that is bad train design, but as RideMan said, you also just haven't been on the really bad ones.

IMHO

Shorter people tend to get their heads banged due to where the restraint sits.
BUT.... Arrow Loopers arent really "rough"

Think about this: if the new B&M and Intimans haden't been so smooth, the older Arrows wouldn't feel so bad to people.

So, Arrows arent getting rougher, new coasters are getting smoother.

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RideMan said:
To get an idea of what people are complaining about, you need to ride some of the mid-generation Arrow loopers, starting with Kings Island's Vortex (which isn't really too bad)

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I would like to try Vortex, but I don't know how long its' line is, since it's a huge roller coaster, and attracts lots of people. And on Vortex, do riders get to choose where they sit, or is it first come first serve? I want to ride Vortex in the front seat, since the front gives the best view and gives an awesome ride.

I take it you don't get out too much.

You shouldn't have to "know how to brace yourself" to make a coaster enjoyable.

Amen Tokyo Boy.

And its not just their loopers...I find Magnum VERY bumpy (and yes I do have more than enough padding "down there").

But the apsolute worst looper I have ever been on is Manhattan Express and I don't even know who built that POC.

Manhattan Express? Looks more like a Togo to me.

I don't really care about Magnum. Nitro at SFGAdv. is a smoother, and faster ride. I once rode Nitro 15 times in a row (waited in queue everytime because I ride roller coasters only in the front seat).

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GregLeg said:

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SFDL_Dude said:
if you don't know how to brace yourself correctly so people call them rough.

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That statement says a lot right there. You shouldn't have to "know how to brace yourself" to make a coaster enjoyable. Part of that is bad train design, but as RideMan said, you also just haven't been on the really bad ones.

IMHO

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oh, i agree with you totally. I should have re-worded that.

Actually I have been on many-an-arrow... TT being the smoothest as many of you said. I do believe the other ones listed had really rough transitions though, not necesarilly the ride itself as rough (where as I would call desperado a "rough" ride since it feels like wood the entire ride)

-- alan "ooooooo i wanna touch the sky, i'm gonna fly sooo highhhh" jacyszyn

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SFDL Viper said:

Nitro at SFGAdv. is a smoother, and faster ride.

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That's because its not an Arrow

Problem number one for me is that the seats in Arrow trains are not made for tall riders.
I am 6"4, which is not that far above average, but I have no way of closing the Arrow (and also Vekoma) OTSR without locking my spine in a bended fashion in the seat -

The second thing is of course the transitions.
Somehow, in the great Arrow Age of looping monsters, the coasters seemed to be assembled of pre-fab elements (such as the standard Arrow loop which always had one size, the standard corkscrew, even the standard Batwing etc.)

Arrow could absolutely built fabulously smooth coasters today, as TT shows -
but somehow no one gives them a chance.
I guess B&Ms sleek box spine just looks more sexy at the moment, compared to the ripcage looking Arraw claw.

But it's a shame, there must be great engineers at Arrow (and now, S&S), the people who designed X and TT are certainly up to their business. (X having so many problems I guess is not really their fault - especially since they managed to get it fixed now).
*** Edited 9/3/2005 9:56:02 AM UTC by superman***

The two Arrow loopers (Corkscrew,CP) and (Double Loop,GL) are not are far drive for me and I think that all the inversions and transitions on both coasters are smooth. Although I have to agree that the Vortex at PKI is a little rough and bangs your head againgst the restraint a lot. But every ride cannot be perfect.

I find most old Arrows (PKI Vortex, Dragon Mountain, SFMM Viper, GASM at SFOG and SFGAd, Viper at Darien, any Corkscrew, etc.) VERY painful but it's mostly because of my height. I am 5'4 and in those type of trains my temples are in direct contact with the OTSR's. Most TOGO stand-ups (that are still around) do the same abuse, as well as many of the Vekoma SLC's (minus the Gauntlet at Magic Springs...VERY nice!)

I have never had a problem with the Arrow suspended coasters, Vekoma flyers or anything from B&M.

However, I have been surprised by Arrow. The TN Tornado is the smoothest *old Arrow* I have been on. VERY smooth. I will rarely ride PKI's Vortex anymore (because it's getting older like me....lol.) and rougher. I don't know...I have had good rides and very nasty rides on it in the last 5 years or so.

The absolute worst ride of my life was my last ride of PKI's FOF before they removed the OTSR's and added lapbars. Now it's a breeze. :-P

SFDL Viper,

Usually the lines are not that long for Vortex. I remember opening year it was an easy 2-hour wait. :-)

-Tina

*** Edited 9/3/2005 11:44:26 AM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***

SFDL Viper, Vortex is a people eater since they usually always run all three trains, even on the less crowded days.

Vortex isn't too bad in the back seat actually and I had a decent front seat ride a couple of weeks ago.

Great American Scream Machine at SFGAdv, IMO, was quite headbangy on my visit back in June. I don't remember SFGAm's Shock Wave being that bad.

X Factor

TT at DW IMHO the best Arrow ever made. But I remember riding CP's Corkscrew the first year it came out and loved it. Last year at CP's frightfest, I rode it again, some 20+ years later and it didn't seem that bad.

I think arrows are rough, but tolerable.

The problem with corkscrew at CP is the turn before the corkscrews. It banks too soon, so it doesn't feel right. You have to remember Arrow built these rides back before the high-tech CAD of today. A lot of it was pencil and paper and a little guessing.