Why CP Isn't The Park of 2000-01-Editorial

Friday, April 20, 2001 8:34 PM
I know I'll get a lot of bad responses for writing this, but we've not had that much interesting for me to talk about lately, so I felt the need to voice something that was on my mind.

As we've not recieved the "winners" yet for the 2000 Coasterbuzz Awards, I don't know who the votes went to for 2000 Park of the Year. I may not know everything a park accomplished, but I'll report what I know and correct me if I'm wrong.

First, why I believe CP should not win Park of the Year for both 2000 and 2001. As we all know, in 2000 CP built Millennium Force, at the time of opening breaking 11(?) World Records. Other additions were minimal but as far as I know nothing else of sizable proportions. Also in 2000, a little park about 60 miles away FKA Geauga Lake transformed itself into Six Flags Ohio. With the "flagging" of the park were the additions of 4 new coasters: BKF(high rated, record breaking floorless), SUE(brand new innovative coaster-impulse, probobly one of the biggest surprises of the year), Villain(high rated, CCI woodie), and Roadrunner Express(a family coaster); several new shows, a new waterpark and kids area, and intense theming. But guess what, the park wasn't even nominated. Other nominees:IOA-Storm Force, tea cups ride+ Flying Unicorn, family coaster; PKI-Son of Beast, record setting,breaking woodie; SFMM-Goliath; BGW-what? IMO, CP is the winner of the nominees but not outside of there.

Now, this is really where CP is not a winner or even a nominee: 2001. 2001 Winner-PKI: RRR, WTRA, FOF changes, show changes/additions, removal of ride for better of the park, 7th Portal, Smash Factory, increasing satisfaction on two of the "worst" coasters in the park, several free priveleges for Season Pass holders, ACE discounts, mystery 2001-02 attractions. Other nominees-SFMM: 3 new coasters, records, prototypes, designs(X, Deja Vu), a family coaster; PKD:FOF, HXLC; Other possibilities-PGA, SFGAm, SFoT, KW, DCA. As far as I know, CP is doing almost absolutely nothing to promote new business pretty much riding on it's 2000 addition(good idea).

CP may very well be the park of the Century, but it is notthe park of the past two to three years just because it is the venerable, unbeatable CP. IMO, it hasn't been the Park of the Year for a long time, not only in the World or even in the US, but in it's only state lagging behind both other major parks.

Thanks for listening.
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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
The First and Only Gigabuzzer bigger than Millie, rising Faster than Maggie, and pulls more BS than MS ever will!!!
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Friday, April 20, 2001 8:51 PM
While I may not agree with you, I'd like to add this about CP as the Park of the year. (I don't know if they are or not)

CP may have "only" built Millennium Force, but it was innovative, the first of it's kind, and was an attention getter world wide.

(Before I say this, I like SFO and am not down on it, but...)
SFO did a major expansion, but it was not well executed. On a late July Tuesday it took me 90 minutes to drive the last 2 miles to the park. 20 minutes to get through security at the gate, then when I got in it there weren't enough bathrooms, good food locations, etc. (The day before I was off MF 15 minutes before the rides were supposed to start, and I left for the park much later then I did for SFO)


While I loved the 4 new coasters, none were anything new. S:UE was a slightly modified version of Linear Gale, BKF was a tamed down Medusa, Villain was a fun woodie, but not the cream of the crop, and RR was a clone.

Don't get me wrong, SFO should be commended, and they are on their way to becoming a world class park, but they're not there yet.

While CP may have not done much other than MF, they are already a world class act, and a well oiled machine. They improved it greatly by sticking that big blue thing in there.


SFO and CP both had great additions this year. If I had to choose, I would probably pick CP.


I'm not going to worry about the best park of 2001 for a while....
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- Peabody *** This post was edited by Peabody on 4/21/2001. ***
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Friday, April 20, 2001 9:03 PM
I know the tallest, record breaking coasters are some of the things entusiasts and just people overall get really excited about, but why should a number be commended for first-of-its-kind and innovative. So, are you saying a 299' coaster would be looked over, but a "new" 300'+ Giga would be something to jump for joy over? I see your non-additions parts as a point(why I said earlier about CP may being "Park of the Century"), but still. And I don't think, SFO had much to do then with the placement of the highways and they're currently trying to make that more effecient this year.

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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
The First and Only Gigabuzzer bigger than Millie, rising Faster than Maggie, and pulls more BS than MS ever will!!!
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Friday, April 20, 2001 9:13 PM
I totally agree that numbers mean nothing. (Some of my favorite rides are small) But, non-enthusiast friends of mine from all corners of the country heard about MF even before it opened, but had never heard of Geauga/SFO. Just as CP did in 89, they "fired a shot that was heard around the world" as someone once put it. Heck, my friend in Japan had even heard of MF! While it had a little brother at SFDL, Millennium Force was unique in many ways.

I also agree that SFOs highway problems were not their fault, but SFO had a lot of problems that need to be addressed before they come a world class report. While they put in GREAT new rides, some things just still have to happen, as were spelled out in many of the SFO trip reports last year. Things just went downhill from media day at SFO last year.

I'm excited to see where SFO will be in 5 years. I bet it will be a force to be reckoned with by then.
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- Peabody
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Friday, April 20, 2001 9:30 PM
While I highly respect your opinion koaster king and I am not disrespecting you I think You need to look at the whole park not just the 2000 additions. Your forgetting that they have several other coasters, a ton of flat rides and some cool shows. IT is also uniqueness. Cedar point is creactive and likes to be the first at everything.
You may not think pouring 25 million dollars into a park is a big thing but I would Have to argue with you. For one Cp was rated number one because they have always done things first and they most often dont copy things. Now I am not saying anything bad about the other parks, especially SFWOA ( SFO as your saying ) but clones don't go over all to well with everyone. I commend the parks for adding four rollercoasters , but none of them were original , one was a clone, one was a kiddie, and the other two will more than likely have clones very soon. For cedar point not adding anything for the 2001 season, what about light house point. To you it may not seem as big as adding a kiddie coaster such as reptars runaway rollercoaster but to me it is. It will provide a wonder place to stay on over the night trips and will make people want to stay at the park that much more. Some things are just done for business and that was one of the. Face it if you were not a coaster enthusiest and was going to go to cedar point or any other park wouldn't you want to have a resort to stay in instead of a hotel or something. SO to respond to you statement koaster king cp was rank that highly for it uniqueness.
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Friday, April 20, 2001 9:34 PM
I see most of what you're saying Peabody, but the part about CP and their coasters being known shouldn't mean anything. Any coaster with that many records would be known. S:ROS at SFNE, Boulder Dash at Lake Compounce, and Villain all opened w/o any hype at all and not too many riders last year, but ended up as some of the top coasters of the year. I wish more coasters and parks would be known for actually being great. Not because they like the spend lots of money and *look* like the best. So(not that I agree), MF should be the Coaster of the Year, but not CP. I think SFO at least deserves the On-the-Right-Track Award.

And again Jordan, I'm referring to PARK OF THE YEAR NOT BEST PARK EVER or something like that. And you said CP won for uniqueness. Ever been to HW, KW, IOA, BGW, BGT, WDW, DL, DCA, Hershey, Knoeble's, Morey's,...? All of those are very unique. And they don't have all that money CP does for coasters. But for what they have, it's the best. About CP's coasters, all of them minus MF and Mantis are way below par compared to other coasters of the same design: Raptor(Alpie, Montu, BTR), MS(too many), Magnum(SROS, RB, AC, SF), just to mention a few. Also, CP doesn't have to go through the process of theming. It's just give me the biggest and put it somewhere that doesn't look bad. And besides RE, the kiddie coaster, which one was a clone? Villain and BKF are original. Isn't SUE the first impulse which doesn't make it a clone. And all of the things you mention about CP being great with service, atmosphere, food, etc., all the parks I mentioned earlier have that too. And to mention resorts, WDW has almost 20 plus 50 other hotels around. Not that CP needs a lot more. The new resort is a good addition, but many parks across the US have had one for many years like this. And the shows at CP were average-below average(I guess I've been around Disney, Dollywood, BG, and Universal too long).

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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
The First and Only Gigabuzzer bigger than Millie, rising Faster than Maggie, and pulls more BS than MS ever will!!!


*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 4/21/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 4/21/2001. ***
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Friday, April 20, 2001 9:40 PM
Yeah, Jordon. Although I won't stay at Lighthouse Point this year, CP is taking another important step in their growth as a MAJOR destination park, rather than a regional attraction. So many onsite rooms is an important part of CP. I've stayed onsite for many years, and it makes the CP experience even that much more special to me. (Nothing like waking up to Magnum staring at you through your window!)

Koaster King, I agree, SFO definitely takes the "on the right track" award in my book!
I do disagree about CP and MF being known not mattering. CP is attracting more and more visitors from far away.
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- Peabody
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 5:56 AM
Personally, I think KK is looking for a flame war. The very park he is comparing to wasn't even nominated for Park of The Year. Heck, it didn't even get close to crack the top five.

Coasters' Choice is a popularity contest, and I've never represented it as anything else. I won't tell you who won, but I will say that the sheer fact that CP gets twice the peeps through the gate over TPFKAGL will pretty much tell you which is going to get more nominations in the first place.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 6:18 AM
I agree that SFO did alot in 2000, but they had too. I ttok a trip to CP in August for 2 days and then we were going to go SFO for 2 days. We went to CP first and then to SFO. We were at SFO for 2 hours and left. We drove back to CP. When we got to SFO lots of rides were closed most of the water park was closed and when we got in line for Villian it broke down ( I wanted on this bad cause I love wooden coasters). I really really want SFWOA to succeed, cause like it's been said before on this site we should all be positive cause it's something we all love. Another coaster and all of Sea World for SF scares me, cause the staff isn't what it is a CP. That's what makes CP stand alone IMO. I'm cheering for SFWOA and I will be there this summer, just train the staff and have enough people to operate the rides please!!!!!!!!!!
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 7:51 AM
Hey King Kobra. I would agree with you if the award was "Best expansion/Best changes/additions of the year."

But It's not. Why should another park win the award just because of what they did that SPECIFIC year? CP is the best because they have the best collection, of rides, number of rides, etc. It's what they have done through the years to come out on top. Not individual added rides.

Like if a crappy park added a really good ride that year, would it beat CP? no... They would have to build themselves up over time.

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My pet peeve: People who post and just write how the thread will be closed. JUST DONT POST
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 7:56 AM
Look, the way I see it, CP could stop building coasters for 5 years, make no expansions, nothing, and they would still be #1 in my book. When you have got a great park like they have now, I enjoy it. I am not always waiting for what they are getting next.

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I'd Rather Be Riding Rollercoasters
www.mycoasters.homestead.com/mycoasters.html
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 8:01 AM
Frankly, when I voted for park of the year, I didn't really look at what the park did that year, I just voted for the best overall park.

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Don't touch the watch.
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 9:15 AM
I bet Cedar Point will win the Coasters' Choice award. I think Koaster King loves nothing more than to get everyone in an uproar. I know I voted for CP, so I'll just leave it at that.

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"If we built a ride that everyone wanted to ride, it would be called an elevator, and that's not an amusement ride."
-Stan Checketts, S&S Power
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 10:59 AM
I agree that the "Park of the Year" is the best park, not the one that made the most improvements or grew the most in a year. For me CP holds that spot but I can't see it staying better than SFMM and SFWoA for too many more years. But that's a topic for another discussion and I'll leave it there.

How was KK looking for a raging argument when he started this topic? IMO that was one of the few good "opinion" posts I've seen here. I guess some folks think any kind of discussion is a bad thing.
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 11:09 AM
It takes more than *rides* to be an all around great park. Food, atmosphere, capacity, and good guest relations are essential reasons to a park being rated #1. Its not just rides, man.
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 11:10 AM
I think you're all getting Koaster King wrong here. While I do think he's wrong in saying CP doesn't deserve park of the year ;), I definitely don't think he's trying to create a "flame war" or an "uproar". And I think he does kind of have a point regarding CP winning park of the year. I think CP will always (at least in the near future) be a sentimental favorite, and that will affect the voting, which it should not. There was intelligent discussion for a while on this thread, and the only reason it might turn into something else is if people post accusing Koaster King of bogus stuff.

Anyway, that being said, I think SFGLOWoA would be a bad choice for Park of the Year. Personally, I've never been there, but I've yet to hear anything good about their management, staff, food, etc. (basically anything but rides). I've also never been to SFMM, but people always talk of long lines and crowds. And I know from experience that PKI suffers from this problem (at least during our visit). CP is just a great experience and a class act. The fact that it has been great for a really long time shouldn't affect anything (if anything, it should help). I think it deserves park of the year. Maybe we should start a "Most Improved Park" award. THEN SFGLOWoA might be deserving. I'm with Peabody on the 2001 awards. I'll hold off a while before opening that can of worms. :)
*** This post was edited by Lothar on 4/21/2001. ***
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 11:49 AM
Exactly Jeff! This is a popularity contest. And I guess you though wrong about me starting a flame war. I could give excellent reasons why there are at least 10 parks out there better than CP, but if most of the buzzers haven't been to many other parks, it's hard to convince in that way. I know SFO wasn't the cleanest, tastiest or friendliest park of the year, but it seemt like the park that tried the most. I had been to GL in '99 and swore I would never return. When I decided to come back in 2000, I was very surprised.(The CP/SFO thing probobly had a lot to do with hype in the experiences) Almost all of the rides were working and I had a good day(only there 6 hours). The day before, I went to CP and got to ride all the coasters(minus WE/JG)once and Power Tower. That was it and I was there all day. Lines were 3 hrs. for Mantis and MF, 1 1/2 hrs. for Maggie and Raptor, and everything else was 30-45 min. 4 coasters took 9 hrs. to get through! Definitely not best capacity even though the lines were moving at a reasonable speed. I've never been to another park with a line over 2 hours. That was probobly the big addition to the disappointment. You can't do everything you want in one day or even have repeats. I've still yet to try any water rides, flat rides, or Demon Drop and I've been 3 times! I got 4 rides on BKF in 45 minutes. I know SFO didn't get the same amount of business as CP, but it was still a better experience for me. Before I went the first time to CP, I was looking forward to the best coasters anywhere from all the hype. I was underwhelmed in all of the coasters besides Magnum and Raptor.It was a sad day. My last 2 times were better as I knew what to expect. And I know a park isn't just rides. That's why I mentioned I wasn't too crazy about CP's shows and their workers seemt to be just doing their job. And I wouldn't think about eating off the ground. But how is a park supposed to make friendly and good worker a park of their requirements for working? How are they supposed to know? And if I wanted to start an uproar, I would have had to say "CP Sucks!" and nothing more which is absolutely pointless. I guess I shouldn't have written "Remove your head from your *** before Reading Further". Again, that's stupid and pointless.

Oh yeah, I voted for Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Truely my favorite park and I don't believe anything currently comes close. IMO, better shows, coasters, food, prices, atmosphere, layout, landscaping, rides, cleanliness, service,...than CP and I could go on. Same goes for IOA and it's in it's second year of operation. And even the Disney Parks and Holiday World.

I hate popularity contests. Standing there and looking pretty isn't what it's all about.
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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
The First and Only Gigabuzzer bigger than Millie, rising Faster than Maggie, and pulls more BS than MS ever will!!!
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:57 PM

Koaster King said:
"Exactly Jeff! This is a popularity contest. And I guess you though wrong about me starting a flame war. I could give excellent reasons why there are at least 10 parks out there better than CP


But thats your opinion, though. I think the reason Jeff thinks you are starting a flame war is because you are always disrespecting the park. If you dont like CP or any other park, dont go back and stop dwelling on the fact that the park didnt meet your expectations. Get over it. Just my observation *** This post was edited by Bernard on 4/21/2001. ***
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 1:54 PM
And that's your opinion. If people can say how much they love the park I can say how much of whatever I believe about it. Just because talking "bad" about CP isn't the cool thing to do doesn't mean you can't do it. Who says you have to be like everyone else. I guess this is attack of the lemmings. Beware everyone that has an opinion!

I guess my problem is not that CP is rated so highly, but that so many overlook and haven't even been to several other parks that are better and have more quality attractions(BGW!!!). And I have to go back to CP, because I can't get to all my other favorite parks 10 hours+ away. I don't and never will disrespect a park. But I do speak what I know and what I know I believe is the truth and never would have written it if I didn't. :p :)

CP may have a lot of great coasters(MF, Maggie, Raptor, Gemini), rides, attractions, etc. But plainly put, the shows aren't the greatest and many of the other rides and coasters(ID, CCMR, CS, MS, DT) kind of blow. CP is a quantity park and proves that fact over and over again. Any park that had that many attractions would be the greatest.
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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
The First and Only Gigabuzzer bigger than Millie, rising Faster than Maggie, and pulls more BS than MS ever will!!!



*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 4/21/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 4/21/2001. ***
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Saturday, April 21, 2001 5:55 PM
Oh Dear god get ahold of yourself Koaster King...Not starting a flame war? That is exactly what you want. First CP IS A WORLD CLASS PARK. Don't listen to the members here go ask the industry experts...they are the ones who have voted CP the Golden Ticket winners the past few years. In addition, CP Live Shows just captured TWO Industry awards from their peers...again, GO ASK the Experts. Your love/hate feelings with CP are just so you can post something and see your name in lights. Funny I have NEVER seen SFO, SFWOA or whatever you want to call them listed as winner.
Please do us all a favor and DON'T go back to CP...
If you really had a clue...I would listen...Until then please don't waste Jeff's bandwidth with your dribble.

P.S. I have been to over 20 different parks around the country so don't even try that argument with me.
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