Why Can't Hyper Coasters Have Loops?
B&M-TYCOON said:
"If they consider Mantis's inclined loop an inversion, than MF's over-banked turns are too."
Um, they didn't...Mantis has 3 inversions. (Loop, diving loop, and corkscrew.)
I even e-mailed Cedar Point to double check and they do not count the inclined loop as an inversion.
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Thank you for not feeding the trolls and enjoy the rest of your day, here at CoasterBuzz.com. CLEAR!
Because quite simply, they don't NEED them... Hypers get their thrills from big drops, helixes, and airtime. Not EVERY coaster needs inversions to be a good ride ya know...
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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
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.:| Brandon Rodriguez |:.
http://www.coasters2k.com
I don't know who you emailed, but Mantis opened as the World's tallest, fastest, and the first Stand-up roller coaster with 4 inversions
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Why Must they use Mulch? It smells like pooh! *** This post was edited by Goober on 7/29/2001. ***
cedarpoint.com says:
Located across from Millennium Force, this high-tech steel ride turns passengers upside down four times - all while standing up! Guests journey over the 3,900 feet of steel track at speeds of up to 60 mph. In five seasons, Mantis has given more than 7.9 million hair-raising rides.
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Why Must they use Mulch? It smells like pooh! *** This post was edited by Goober on 7/29/2001. ***
compressed airhead i dont complain about clones. i actually like going to parks and ridding diff SLCs so i can see how they match up to TOp gun at my home park(PCW). top gun seems to be like 3 times as intense as any other SLC i have been on. Also to see how they themed there ride and things like that
and your second point. are you trying to get at inverted coasters or alpengeist?
if you are getting at inverted coasters then your saying ski lifts are coasters. so next time i go sking i can count the chair lift to the top as a coaster on my count?
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1.Fire Dragon, 2.Ice Dragon, 3.Raptor, 4.Kraken, 5.Batman Knight Flight
and your second point. are you trying to get at inverted coasters or alpengeist?
if you are getting at inverted coasters then your saying ski lifts are coasters. so next time i go sking i can count the chair lift to the top as a coaster on my count?
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1.Fire Dragon, 2.Ice Dragon, 3.Raptor, 4.Kraken, 5.Batman Knight Flight
Well, they say that, but when it really comes down to being accurate, it's 3.
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Thank you for not feeding the trolls and enjoy the rest of your day, here at CoasterBuzz.com. CLEAR!
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Thank you for not feeding the trolls and enjoy the rest of your day, here at CoasterBuzz.com. CLEAR!
Compressed Airhead, as nearly as I could tell when B&M had the lead cars from Nitro and from Wildfire sitting next to each other at IAAPA, it looks like the two styles of train are practically identical from the floor down. The Nitro car had some additional electrical stuff on it so that it could report closed lap bars back to the control system in the station, but apart from that the cars appeared to be almost identical.
Does that answer your question? :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Does that answer your question? :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Rideman... yeah, that answers my question. I just wasn't sure about how articulate they are and if the upstops are beefy enough to hold the weight in an inversion. I get chills just thinking of a B&M looper with lapbars.
PCW-2002... that's beside the point. All I'm asking is for folks not to diss new ideas simply because they're new. And sure, if it floats your boat, add a ski lift to your track record. ;)
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Joshua Wilcox
The following statement is true.
The preceding statement is false.
PCW-2002... that's beside the point. All I'm asking is for folks not to diss new ideas simply because they're new. And sure, if it floats your boat, add a ski lift to your track record. ;)
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Joshua Wilcox
The following statement is true.
The preceding statement is false.
I think if there were loops on a hypercoaster that the g-forces would become way too intense. Imagine a 300ft drop into a 200ft loop. At the bottom of that goliath circle i'd bet the forces would be too much to withstand
SROS208, thats like saying the higher the coaster is, the more g-forces it will have (wait, that is what you said;)). Anyways, just because it's taller and faster doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna have more g's: that's what the media and Markey wants you to think.
If you have a rollercoaster that was 300 feet and had a 200 foot tall loop, I'm sure you would die or at least be severely injured because you would be going too fast through the inversion. But if the loop was more like 260-280 feet tall, that would be more reasonable. Like Jeff says, a hypercoaster is just a really big coaster, so what do you do? You supersize the rest of the ride:)
My take on this is that at the moment, hypercoasters are only used for airtime. That is all people will think of them as. That is their only purpose, besides speed and height. Also, really big loops probably cost a lot more money money than a camelback.
Maybe in the future we will se a hyper or two with loops. I think it would be cool to have a hyper for the first three-quarters or so, then in the last quarter it would have some small inversions like loops or corkscrews, or something like that.
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A New World. A New Technology. One Last Hope for Salvation. Neon Genesis Evangelion
If you have a rollercoaster that was 300 feet and had a 200 foot tall loop, I'm sure you would die or at least be severely injured because you would be going too fast through the inversion. But if the loop was more like 260-280 feet tall, that would be more reasonable. Like Jeff says, a hypercoaster is just a really big coaster, so what do you do? You supersize the rest of the ride:)
My take on this is that at the moment, hypercoasters are only used for airtime. That is all people will think of them as. That is their only purpose, besides speed and height. Also, really big loops probably cost a lot more money money than a camelback.
Maybe in the future we will se a hyper or two with loops. I think it would be cool to have a hyper for the first three-quarters or so, then in the last quarter it would have some small inversions like loops or corkscrews, or something like that.
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A New World. A New Technology. One Last Hope for Salvation. Neon Genesis Evangelion
There's a rumor going around that Vekoma's building a hyper-invert for 2002 in Europe.
As for hypers having loops SOB@PKI has a loop and it's a hyper.:)
If you think SOB is rough try riding front seat on the Villian.(LOL)
As for hypers having loops SOB@PKI has a loop and it's a hyper.:)
If you think SOB is rough try riding front seat on the Villian.(LOL)
Glitch01, I don't know if anyone can convince you that Mantis contains 4 inversion, but if they have given valid points and proven their facts as stated above, and you still reject their explanation, that's just being flat out ignorant!
I don't want to upset you or anything, but Mantis does have 4 inversions. It's as simple as that!. The incline loop on Mantis is just a tilted vertical loop. It's 30 degrees from being a true vertical loop.
I know that the park claims that MF has the "steepest non-inverted turns at 122 degrees", but I'm pretty sure that was just a ploy so they could claim it broke 10 world records. Mantis on the other hand is stated by the park and manufacturer as having 4 inversions.
I don't know how you can claim otherwise...
I don't want to upset you or anything, but Mantis does have 4 inversions. It's as simple as that!. The incline loop on Mantis is just a tilted vertical loop. It's 30 degrees from being a true vertical loop.
I know that the park claims that MF has the "steepest non-inverted turns at 122 degrees", but I'm pretty sure that was just a ploy so they could claim it broke 10 world records. Mantis on the other hand is stated by the park and manufacturer as having 4 inversions.
I don't know how you can claim otherwise...
Look at how close Viper is to a hyper at 188ft, and it is a mega looper! It is indeed possible, but most seem to feel that a hyper is about airtime, and speed. A loop certainly slows you down...:(
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;)Rollercoasters are like parrots...if you take care of them, they should outlive you;)
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;)Rollercoasters are like parrots...if you take care of them, they should outlive you;)
X is a hyper and it has inversions.
"take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will." - METALLICA
"take a look to the sky just before you die, its the last time you will." - METALLICA
I think no matter the height of the coaster it could have a loop. I'd like a Zero G roll or something on a Hyper. They could even add breaks to slow it down (like SOB does)
Hypers could have several inversions but not many. They would have to be big inversions because their such big coasters but for intensity there should only be 2-3 inversions unless braking is used. Batman Knight Flight isnt a hyper, but near the end of the ride they brake you about 75 ft. up then you go down into some more inversions. The fun of a hyper wouldnt exactly be taken out of the coaster if there was an inversion or two at the end, I mean you still get the drops and helices.
Personally, I think big inversions are boring. I find the big verticle loops on Mantis and Batman to be very unexciting. It just takes to long to get through the loop. I think I read somewhere that a coaster is being built in Europe with a 200 foot loop. I think its more exciting to have smaller loops, taken at a slower speeds. That way you can have quicker (and more) changes of direction.
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Bob M.
What is the primary appeal of a hyper? Answer: Speed. Adding inversions causes problems in several ways.
1) The size of the elements becomes so large that they would be hugely expensive. You can build inversions that stay within human limits at Hyper speeds, but they get enormous. Imagine the cost of building a 200 foot loop.
2) Inversion elements tend to use up a lot of energy. This reduces the speed of the coaster to less than hyper speeds.
3) Inversion elements would tend to reduce an confuse the pace psycholobgically.
4) There may also be some train design issues that cause problems meeting the demands of both types of rides. OTSRs are the obvious example. While genrally favored by manufacturers for inverting coasters, they certianly take away from the air time effect of a hyper. There may also be design issues with the undercarriage.
The only ocaster I've ridden that has done a good job of combining Hyper type speed and inversions is Alpengeist. (Yes, I know it's not quite an official hyper.)
Sensible size inversions might be added to the end of a hyper's run. Many hypers reach their brake runs with as much speed as most inverters have at the start of their runs. The big issue here might be cost as it would cost nearly as much a building a hyper and an inverter. I also would have much less total capacity than the two separate coasters would.
1) The size of the elements becomes so large that they would be hugely expensive. You can build inversions that stay within human limits at Hyper speeds, but they get enormous. Imagine the cost of building a 200 foot loop.
2) Inversion elements tend to use up a lot of energy. This reduces the speed of the coaster to less than hyper speeds.
3) Inversion elements would tend to reduce an confuse the pace psycholobgically.
4) There may also be some train design issues that cause problems meeting the demands of both types of rides. OTSRs are the obvious example. While genrally favored by manufacturers for inverting coasters, they certianly take away from the air time effect of a hyper. There may also be design issues with the undercarriage.
The only ocaster I've ridden that has done a good job of combining Hyper type speed and inversions is Alpengeist. (Yes, I know it's not quite an official hyper.)
Sensible size inversions might be added to the end of a hyper's run. Many hypers reach their brake runs with as much speed as most inverters have at the start of their runs. The big issue here might be cost as it would cost nearly as much a building a hyper and an inverter. I also would have much less total capacity than the two separate coasters would.
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