Which park offers the "Total Package"
ApolloAndy said:
There really aren't that many parks with great wood AND great steel. I mean how many have a hyper and any decent wood at all?SFGAm is the only one that comes to mind. Kennywood is a possibility for those who enjoy their wooden coasters (I, on the other hand, think they're pretty bad). I haven't been to SFNE or SFA to comment on their wooden coasters, but I never hear any overly positive comments about them. The other parks in the US with hypercoasters all have really poor woodies.
-Nate
I'll throw in some positive comments about SFA's woodies. The old man, Wild One, turns 85 this year, and is a real nice dog-leg out and back...the only flaw is the trim before the helix finale (sorry Jeff...;)). The new kid, ROAR, rocks and rolls, good air, nice laterals, exciting twister. (Hoping real hard that this coaster gets the maintenance it WILL require). As for steel, S:RoS....left me speechless, ME!?! Batwing, Vekoma flyer that, thankfully, draws the big crowd away from S:RoS...
Please bear in mind that this means the park has the total RIDE package...honestly, I felt SFWoA also had the total ride package...there are LOTS of other things these parks may lack, but I'm here on COASTERbuzz for a reason...;)...
Hyper and Great wood have to be SFGAM. Viper is extremely tasty. I also think SFGAM has the best coaster collection I have ever been too. A little somethign for everyone.
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Does CCI know how to make a bad coaster?
G-dub-j inquired: "What park do think gives the total package as far as rides, shows, atmosphere, thrills, etc... "
Unfortuneately, I have to agree with Nate here and chime in with BGT and SFGAm, with the slight edge going to BGT just because I havent seen a show @ SFGAm in years and the ones I saw were pretty bad. Hershey gets an honorable mention as they have *most* of the requirements, but when your best steel coaster is a boomerang....
Then jay-rider emmitted: "I think Hershey is good but to complete the package they need some more additions.A water park, a drop ride, a ride that launches, it has nice shows, maybe some more flat rides to bring the coaster linesdown, a pay attraction would go in nicely"
First off, it's my opinion that drop rides are overrated. You can *easily* have a perfectly good park and never have the *hint* of a drop ride. As far as Hershey needing a water park, why? There are *plenty* of attractions that will get you soaked: The Big Honkin' Boat (Tidal Force), the rapids ride, and that der new fangled attraction: Roller Soaker. Not to mention that they actually *do* have water slides in the park. And how many flat rides do you need? What other park can boast having something as classic as a whip (even if it does suck) virtually adjacent to a modern Chaos? Who else has TWO ferris-type wheels? They've got a nice HUSS package (enterprise, pirat, rainbow, condor), as well as the standards like a tilt-a-whirl, flying swings, and scrambler. I dont really know what more you want. Sure they *could* add something like a HUSS Delrium, but what park *couldn't*? Furthermore, do flats *really* cut down on lines? SFGAdv has more flats than anyone yet I *still* waited in line over two hours for Batman: The Ride last year. Poppycock!
ApolloAndy spat:"There really aren't that many parks with great wood AND great steel. I mean how many have a hyper and any decent wood at all?"
Depends on your definition of a hyper ;). By *any* definition, the combos of Thunderhawk/Steel Force (Dorney), S:ROS/Wild One/ROAR (SFA), Raging Bull/Viper (SFGAm), S:ROS/Riverside Cyclone (SFNE) and Titan/Texas Giant (SFoT) should qualify.
Under other more *liberal* interpretations, I suppose one could say Phantom's Revenge/JackRabbit/Racer/Thunderbolt, but I, like Nate was not impressed by the KennyWood woodies (T-bolt was closed). You could even go one step further and say Mr. Freeze/Screamin' Eagle/BOSS (SFStl) since Freeze *is* over 200ft ;)
Finally Nate stuttered:"I haven't been to SFNE or SFA to comment on their wooden coasters, but I never hear any overly positive comments about them."
And you will likely hear *few* comments about either of these woodies because the 'locals' to the park dont really talk them up and the visitors to the parks, off the cruise ship S.S. Six Flags Haters, would rather talk about trash or lines or "overly minority populated crowds" than the actual rides. Sorry *shrugs*.
Okay, I think I've typed enough (though, as always, I have more to say ;))
lata,
jeremy
--Have an ICE ride!
Hershey gets an honorable mention as they have *most* of the requirements, but when your best steel coaster is a boomerang....
Hello, you forgot Great Bear, the best wild mouse in the country, and even Sooper Dooper Looper is better than Sidewinder. And you will likely hear *few* comments about either of these woodies because the 'locals' to the park dont really talk them up and the visitors to the parks, off the cruise ship S.S. Six Flags Haters, would rather talk about trash or lines or "overly minority populated crowds" than the actual rides. Sorry *shrugs*.
Six Flags New England's woodies are moderate. Cyclone once lost its temper and now has no temper at all. What recognized as the undisputable best wooden coaster drop is lame now thanks to Six Flags. What were airtime halfpikes on the turnaround are now extremely slow bunny hops, and the trims took out all the lateral forces that the ride was famous for.
Thunderbolt on the other is a great classic, but is nothing outstanding. It's beautiful, compact, and has great airtime element. The ride is not a charm though. It's in one of the best coditions of all classic coasters. Though it is the original, it has been cloned three times. Any park could love having this coaster added to their park, but many will see it as just as average. It fits into same category as Blue Streak(though T-Bolt is much older), Giant Dipper, Jack Rabbit@Clementon Park, and Skyliner. They are all great classic coasters, are loved by many but get small attention and don't fall on the same lines as a CCI.
*** This post was edited by Vertigo on 4/11/2002. ***
I'm gonna say either of the SF "big three".(SFMM, SFGAm, SFGAdv)
Only problem is SFMM and SFGAdv don't have outstanding woodies, granted, they could've, but the maintanence just isn't there. ( By that I mean maintenance literally, and other factors such as trims, poor tracking etc.)
Whereas SFGAm has the hyper/woodie combo in Bull and Viper, 2 other outstanding/intense Beemers, a GIB and Impulse, classic racer, and a racing woodie, not to mention 2 nice Arrow loopers.
As for non-SF parks I'd say Busch Williamsburg/Tampa and CP. Honorable mention goes to IOA and, but there isn't much to do coaster-wise besides Hulk and the Dragons in IOA.
CP has great variety (C'mon, a giga, B&M inverter, standup, the first full-circuit hyper and a good woodie, and an oversize impulse qualify it)
As for the Busch Parks, well, they're just that damn good.
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***R.I.P-Megadeth***
Zakk Wylde's Black Label Society-Chicago Chapter
Finally Nate stuttered:"I haven't been to SFNE or SFA to comment on their wooden coasters, but I never hear any overly positive comments about them."
I've ridden SFA's woodies and I think they're both very nice. In fact, the Wild One is one of my favorite coasters. It's much better than PKD's Grizzly which is just down the road.
There, are you happy now!
Vertigo said:
"Hello, you forgot Great Bear, the best wild mouse in the country, and even Sooper Dooper Looper is better than Sidewinder. "
Well seeing as though in my above post I actually allude to the Great Blah (see where I say "(Great) Bear with me"?)
Furthermore, it is my contention that Sidewinder *is* the best steel coaster there. Wild Mouse may be the best non-spinning mouse on the planet...but it's still a mouse and for that very reason, sucks in my opinion. Trailblazer, OTOH might be the worst mine train around: short and unthrilling. SooperDooperLooper is fun and a good intro coaster, but not standout. And the Great Blah, with it's 'limp home' ending is the only B&M invert I like less than Raptor! (The setting is cool though :)). NO! Only Sidewinder is really thrilling and intense to me.
But hey, you could get rid of all the steelies @ HP and it'd *STILL* be a wonderful park on the backs of Comet, Wildcat and my #2 woodie: Lightning Racer!
lata,
jeremy
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"Nobody writes about the planes that land." Steve Salerno Washington Times 7-10-01
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Sorrrrrrrry folks! Parks closed. The moose out front should have told you.
While I personally *love* BGT, I think there's a few reasons why it doesn't really have the "total package": The kid's area in Land of the Dragons doesn't have that much to do compared to most of the major seasonal parks and overall pales in comparison with the Disney parks. Sure, you could say, "but the animals and shows alone are enough" and even though I agree, I don't think it fits everybody's total package. Of course there's dozens of parks that don't even have animals, but I don't really think its a necessity to theme/thrill/amusement parks or more would have them. SFGAdv is the most popular seasonal amusement park, but rather this has much to do with the safari, I would really doubt. I hope it is successful though. Also, with the coasters, they don't really have any small non-looping coasters for kids to ride. I don't think Gwazi counts, because it is one of the more intense woodies I've been on and don't think it really takes the place of a mine train or kiddie coaster well.
As far as best coaster park goes, I've not been to many that even come close to the variety SFGAm offers. I think BGW, BGT, CP, possibly PKD, SFMM, and SFGAdv do, but SFGAm really rounds everything off extremely well.
Now, we're to the point in the show I know everyone is looking forward to. I think the "total package" park I will speak of will remain nameless for now. It doesn't have a B&M which almost immediately would disqualify it for this total package with some enthusiasts, but they have one of the most diverse and assorted ride collections I've experienced. For the kids, they won the 2001 Golden Ticket award for Best Kid's Area and currently have 4 kiddie/junior coasters: a woodie, a sit down steelie, an invert, and a suspended, enjoyable for most adults even. They have two shows targeted directly for kids and character greeting places. With the huge water playground and log flume, the kid's area would really be an outstanding attraction on its own with the rest of the park.
They are one of the few seasonal parks I've been to which offer two well-themed dark rides, one being a journey through a haunted theatre and the other, a one-of-a-kind action/adventure thrill ride, Tomb Rai... er, Indiana Jones style. They also have many attractions enclosed which both make for better experiences in some cases and an escape from the rain. Their adult coasters stretch from fairly tame and all out fun(a mine ride and racing woodie) to insanely intense(the two longest wooden coasters in the World and an enclosed mad cobra... revolutionary in 2001 with a lap bar retrofit).
The park includes a free 15 acre waterpark,12 coasters, several classic flat rides, a miniature railroad, quality food and entertainment, and an atmosphere you can't get anywhere else. This park I will simply call "my precious little"... park. What's missing? A steel hyPer? A B&M? Maybe a few more Kool shows? I think we'll see more in the future. Heck, they even have a large assortment of upcharge attractions, lol!! Anyways, they're definitely the "total package" park, because they have DDR. And that's all that counts really, isn't it? :)
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Danny, who is on the edge of his seat waiting to see what the genius 2Hostyl says next*dripping with sarcasm and the "I hate Six Flags" CB slogan* ;)
*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 4/11/2002. ***
coasterdude318 said:
SFGAm just has a perfect collection of everything.
While it is true they have a great collection, no coaster collection can be perfect without an Intamin hyper and a CCI. Just my opinion.
For the complete package, I think CP has the best. They have kiddie coasters, medium coasters, huge coasters, and tons of flat rides. They have lots of stores, food places, and a great setting. What more could you ask for?...A CCI. ;)
*** This post was edited by SFGA2001 on 4/11/2002. ***
I think it depends what you're idea is of the "total package. IOA is an excellent park and I prefer it to any other but that's because I like the theming AND the rides. Some people look for flat rides to round off a park which would eliminate BGT altogether. I don't look for flat rides because that's too carnival for me. I can go to the State fair for that. BGT is missing, however, a kiddie coaster.
I would have to say PKI has a lot to offer but the way the park was run when I went left much to be desired. I loved the way CP runs their park perfectly and they have a great collection of rides.
I guess it all depends on what you prefer.
But what strikes me as suprisingly funny is that Danny points out the lack of flats at BGT, but makes no mention of the same deficiency @ PKI. But what puts BGT on the tip top as *all around* is the fact that there *is* something for everyone, even those who might not like rides at all. They also have *educational* areas where you can actually *gasp* learn something! Not to mention that @ BGT the themes actually WORK! (and for the butt-nuggets that are sure to object to the Festhaus in Timbuktu, read up on the colonization of Africa first, then make your comment. And lastly, but certainly not leastly, an adult buzzer's two favorite words FREE and BEER!
As for SFGAm (my personal favorite park), as noted, their coaster collection is unmatched, the themeing is impecable, the MooseBurgers have no commercially produced equals. The two themed kiddie areas (Camp Cartoon Network, Looney Toones National Park), the two Merry go Rounds (with the majestic Columbia Carousel greeting visitors), the mad array of flat rides and the overall beauty of the park. Let us not forget this is *the* park that demonstrated what *immersive* movie themeing could do for a ride (Batman: The Ride). Furthermore, and this is of *Paramount* importance to me and many other park guests, SFGAm has a *very* understandable layout. One needs not consort a map *every* time to find an attraction. Unlike other parks that have rides tucked away in dead ends you have queue lines *designed* to be in the middle of the midways, SFGAm is easy to navagate and flow from ride to ride, from show to show. Indoor/covered attractions (Pictorium, Space Shuttle America, Chubasco, Rue Le Dodge), park standards (Hometown Fun Machine, River Rocker, Triple Play), rare finds (Fiddler's Fling, Ricochet, Whizzer), what more can you ask for?
lata,
jeremy
--cant type...eating!
While I would probably rate IOA number one for total package, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned BGW. It has an excellent assortment of steel coasters, is consistantly rated the most beautiful park in the country (real hills and real trees!), has the best themeing north of Florida, has the best shows north of Florida, and has some of the best food at a park. It is one of the best run large parks in the country. Like IOA it lacks wood.
Outside the park it has an excellent water park nearby, is located in a really neat historic town, and is less than an hour from the beach.
2Hostyl said: Well PKI is fired right off the top because the food there blow chunks! (or I should say, made me *want* to blow chunks )
Sorry you didn't like it Jeremy. What did you have? I can't particularly say that *all* of the food at PKI is great, but it certainly isn't horrible. Have you had Potato Works, Skyline, or Wings? Mmm! Unless you have some suggestions, I don't think I've ever had any food worth mentioning at a SF park. I know what I say about the closure signs was unfair, but this is something I definitely remember. Do the SF parks even have any "specialty" restaurants? Like the CF Coasters restaurant or the Disney themed restaurants and such? You know?
But what strikes me as suprisingly funny is that Danny points out the lack of flats at BGT, but makes no mention of the same deficiency @ PKI.
Well... While PKI does have a limited number of flat rides, I think the amount at BGT was much more noticible to me, because they were all basically in one spot around Scorpian. They weren't spread out like Coney Mall where you get the sense that there's more than there actually is, lol. I don't think 23+ flat rides at PKI is that bad(depending on your definition of flats.... which I think are overrated but still an essential for parks overall). At least that's how I see it. I don't have a problem with it, but it was just something I remembered so I jotted it down. At least PKI has one of those overrated drop rides... which after riding over 20 times I'm personally too scared to even ride again...
And you said it Jeremy! We finally know exactly what PKI needs!! They need to build a film school right at the park. Maybe one of those Magic of Disney Animation type deals. And maybe a course on how to make a bad coaster good! It's not like the park tries or has to make their rides and the park better or anything. Maybe they should have added a body suit restraint of Flight of Fear? That way, your body won't bounce around at all! So, no head or bodybanging! Whoopee!
Well, if PKI built this "Paramount Institute", would the park have "something for everyone"? We know how much their employees now know about Paramount, their rides, the park, etc. It's not like we could learn anything from those dumb little 14 year old ride ops. :rolls eyes:
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American Beauty (1999)-
Lester Burnham- "Well, I'm sure there have been marvelous advances in the industry, but surely you must have some sort of training program. It's unfair you presume I won't be able to learn."
I beg your pardon! Koaster King, that does not sound like you at all. I am suprised.....
I was a ride op at PKI for two years. I was neither 14 nor dumb. Nor are (were) 99% of the others that work(ed) there.
Try standing on your feet in blazing sun on a 100 degree day, bending over again and again checking restraints, ensuring other's safety and enjoyment, having to clean up vomit, trash spills, cigarette butts, not to mention listening to customers who repeatedly grumble over and over.... Oh and then there are those pesky enthusiasts that make life a living H$LL when they are around.
It is grueling and hard work. But it is also very rewarding and fun. I am VERY glad I did it.
I admire ANY and ALL ride ops. My hat is off to them. Why? Because I have been in their shoes.
You know if it wasn't for the willingness of people to work at parks, then you would not have rides to talk about, or opinions such as this to post.
This former PKI ride op could take just about anyone in a PKI trivia quiz anyday! The only competition I have found so far would be Mr. Jeffrey Siebert himself.
Shaggy
P.S. The food at PKI does stink.
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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.
*** This post was edited by Shaggy on 4/12/2002. ***
Whoa Shaggy! You really took that completely the wrong way. I'll explain!
When I said "dumb little 14 year old ride ops", I was showing the exaggeration people put on how young the ride ops are that PKI hires. Then, I put :rolls eyes:, because I know that ride ops AREN'T dumb and do know a lot of stuff. Basically, I was being sarcastic to the people that think just because a park might hire 16-18 year olds to op, it doesn't mean they're stupid. Like I'm rolling my eyes at people who say that and thing that. I know this, because we get extensive material on the park, and we can also have a lot of stuff about Paramount parks and movies. I've talked to a lot of the other ops and they may be 16 or 17, but they're extremely intelligent and very devoted(for the most part ;)).
I'm young AND a ride op, so of course I wouldn't be saying that as my opinion on the subject. I would be a total hypocrite if I said that and meant it.
Hopefully that clears up the confusion, but nonetheless, I think you prevented any actual arguement about that from coming and gave a good, realistic background. So, thanks and sorry for writing that the wrong way. Of course in the way you read it at first, it didn't sound like me. :)
About the food, I really do like it. When my parents ask where do I want to go for dinner, I used to say PKI all the time, lol. But maybe I just like it, because I'm used to it. The only food at PKI I can really say I don't like is probably the majority of the freezer food over at Festhaus... even though we eat there almost every visit.
Cool,
Like I said, it totally did not sound like you. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve about ride ops and park workers. They are some of the most underappreciated employees in the world.
I have begun a tradition of not eating at PKI. First off, it is terribly expensive. Second, it is ridiculous how much food in park costs for very poor servings with poor taste. I have become terribly spoiled when it comes to food at parks. Two significant park names will explain why: BGW and SDC.
These two places have the most superb food I have ever had at any park. BGW's Festhaus is a must do each time I am there. SDC actually gets the nod because of their down-home country cookin. I was raised a hearty southern boy and I enjoy my starchy meals.
The worst park food I have had is easily SFKK. SFSTL ranks down there too. It has been a while since I went to Disney but recall hockey puck burgers and cold fries.
CP has a hidden gem.... the "Chuck Wagon" near Mean Streak. I make a point to eat there each time I go. Good food, large servings, good price and hardly ever busy.
PKI does have Skyline, which I do enjoy. But Skyline Chili in Cincinnati is like McDonalds anywhere else. Hardly special. LaRoaches.... errr La Grosssas errr.... La Rosas pizza is warm cardboard (if your lucky.) The Montgomery Inn food at Wings is HORRIBLE and if I were Montgomery Inn I would pull my name from the advertising. Anyone that has had the real thing can attest. The fries at Potato works are good, and this year they added popcorn chicken which I would like to try. But really fries alone do not do it for me.
Finally, this year I nearly doubled over in laughter at the new name of the food stand in Old Coney at PKI near the Rock Shop. The name is "It's Fried!" Geez! Why dont they just add some more signs saying "It's un healthy!" or "Chock full 'o Cholesterol" or better yet..... "We HAVE MSG?"
Shaggy
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Shaggy
A.K.A. John K.
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