What Cedar Fair park should inherit "Big Dipper"?

So you admit then that it's only a tragedy when a ride you like comes down?

Now who's being argumentative?

Where did I say that? Or suggest that? I never said it isn't a tragedy when a ride I don't care for comes down- I said that I respect someone else considering it a tragedy. If you're going to twist my words, at least do a good job of it.

Rob Ascough said:
I never said it isn't a tragedy when a ride I don't care for comes down

Then why weren't you there defending Psyclone and Hurcules in their "RIP" threads?

Taken from the Wooden Coaster Club:
"We foster the promotion, education, and preservation of wooden rollercoasters for future generations to enjoy."

I get it. If it's done by popular opinion, it's fine to trash a ride and taer it down... But if it's beloved by more than just a few and someone expresses even a slightly diffrent opinion then they suxorz. Sweet.

I wasn't infecting any "R.I.P.' threads with negativity.

Oh please. I was being realistic about it's future and offering my opinion of the ride.

So what? Am I suddenly the cheerleader for every endangered coaster?

Yeah, pretty much. ;)
*** Edited 9/24/2007 7:14:07 PM UTC by rOLLocOASt***

---

Rob Ascough said:
Now who's being argumentative?

---

Since your not in the mood to be arguementive then I would think you would respect the fact some people feel that Big Dipper is not worth saving (which on the the flip side you will also respect that some people feel that the big dipper is worth saving).

I went to Geuaga lake for the first time this year and really enjoyed myself. Hopefully most of the rides will get sold off and maybe the dipper will stay as some be apart of the water park somehow. \

I'm starting to get the opinion that a few people need to take a few days off the forums until they can regain their composure.

It's too bad something like the Mean Streak can't be scrapped. I mean, come on. It was good the first year. Then the brakes, rough track, reprofiled 3rd drop, shorter trains... ug. that awful 'cp' field of silver q rails.

We've lost some gems lately. The Whalom park coaster, Texas Cyclone (actually improved in it's final few years). I would even argue the CHILLER at Great Adventure, one of the best steel loopers - thanks to the removal of the OTSRs.

Bringing up stuff like the Psyclone at MM is just silly. The ride was basically a failure from the start. Bad design, bad trains.

I don't think Cedar Fair is 'worthy' of having something like the Big Dipper. They weren't even worthy of Geauga Lake as a whole obviously.

They also proved they weren't worthy of having a beautiful, air time filled, classic smooth gem like the Blue Streak. ug! *** Edited 9/24/2007 7:33:39 PM UTC by J7G3***

Bah. Mean Streak wasn't good even in its first year.

---

Jeff said:
Bah. Mean Streak wasn't good even in its first year.

---

Awww.. come on Jeff :) I mean, compared to Texas Giant (or Blue Streak), no. But it was fast, smooth and had about 3 slight points of airtime ;)

---

rOLLocOASt said:

Then why weren't you there defending Psyclone and Hurcules in their "RIP" threads?

---

It's not my obligation to defend rides that I personally don't really care about. Why is it that I'm suddenly looked upon to crusade for every endangered ride? Just because I didn't say much about the loss of those coasters doesn't mean I don't respect those who cared about those rides. I simply had the decency to avoid going in there and gloating about how happy I was to see Hercules replaced by a better ride.

---

PsychoMonkey61 said:

I would think you would respect the fact some people feel that Big Dipper is not worth saving (which on the the flip side you will also respect that some people feel that the big dipper is worth saving).

---

I really don't see why this is so difficult. This is a coaster enthusiast site and people are obviously doing something akin to "mourning" over the impending loss of an amusement park and some of its rides. It's not about not being able to express an opinion, it's about doing it in a respectful way.

If someone you didn't care much for passes away, do you go to the funeral and talk about how happy you are that they're gone?

---

Rob Ascough said:

---

rOLLocOASt said:

Then why weren't you there defending Psyclone and Hurcules in their "RIP" threads?

---

It's not my obligation to defend rides that I personally don't really care about. Why is it that I'm suddenly looked upon to crusade for every endangered ride? Just because I didn't say much about the loss of those coasters doesn't mean I don't respect those who cared about those rides. I simply had the decency to avoid going in there and gloating about how happy I was to see Hercules replaced by a better ride.

---

PsychoMonkey61 said:

I would think you would respect the fact some people feel that Big Dipper is not worth saving (which on the the flip side you will also respect that some people feel that the big dipper is worth saving).

---

I really don't see why this is so difficult. This is a coaster enthusiast site and people are obviously doing something akin to "mourning" over the impending loss of an amusement park and some of its rides. It's not about not being able to express an opinion, it's about doing it in a respectful way.

If someone you didn't care much for passes away, do you go to the funeral and talk about how happy you are that they're gone?

---

Ew that is so sad you would ever compare the closing of an venue's amusement park section to the passing of a person. It is NOT the same thing and you know it.

When someone dies, nobody is going to go about saying how happy that person is gone because it's a person. An amusement park, a PLACE, is rather different, in case you need a reminder which I believe you do. Like you said, this is a coaster enthusiast site and anybody is as welcome to embrace the demise of a park as much as someone else is welcome to mourn it.

Go take a break from the boards for a bit Rob -- and like someone mentioned earlier, compose yourself. You're getting out of hand and I'm sure you don't need four more other people to tell you so. You are obviously in an emotional state and are just typing out of remorse.

Good thing you caught me... I was just about to bury my troubles in a bottle of Jack Daniels tonight. You know, being all emotional and out-of-control...

Man, who'd have thought so many coaster enthusiasts would care so little about the rides and parks they supposedly love. I guess there are only a select few of us that cherish the time they get to spend at parks around the world and are saddened when they close.

Maybe I have a slightly different perspective on things. But, I am not a huge fan of the corporate takeover of the parks. It's ironic to me that the biggest corporation of them all has the parks that "feel" the nicest. They really know how to do parks right. The family park operators that have turned into huge corporations just don't seem to know how to handle themselves anymore.

Except if you like Herschend parks such as Dollywood, Silver Dollar City, and Celebration City.

---

Rob Ascough said:
Why is it that I'm suddenly looked upon to crusade for every endangered ride?

---

Probably because you're always trying to call out us cold, heartless bastards who argue those you want to save don't have a prayer because of their location.

---

halltd said:
Man, who'd have thought so many coaster enthusiasts would care so little about the rides and parks they supposedly love. I guess there are only a select few of us that cherish the time they get to spend at parks around the world and are saddened when they close.

---

You have to love them all? That was exactly the point Corey was trying to make. You and Rob both make sweeping generalizations about things that are "historic" and therefore "important" for whatever reason, but you don't apply it universally. You know why? Because there is no universal truth to be had. I "care so little" in part because it's just not that important to me. Judging by the way this is playing out in the Cleveland media, the Big Dipper and Geauga Lake aren't really that important locally, which pretty much explains why the place hasn't been doing particularly well.

I don't love them all. But, I always have a good time while visiting parks. It's a chance to get away from work, have some fun with friends and enjoy the experience - not JUST the rides.

I never particularly liked Geauga Lake personally. But, does that mean I'm happy to see it closed? Not really. There are obviously a lot of people that liked Geauga Lake and had fond memories there. I'd imagine they feel the same way I would if Cedar Point were to close. I know they feel the same way I did when Sea World closed and then Cedar Fair bulldozed it.

I'm fortunate enough to be able to travel all over the world to visit parks. As you've mentioned, Geauga Lake attracted a lower income bracket than Cedar Point. I feel bad for the people that are left without a park to visit now. If they can't afford to drive to Cedar Point and buy a season pass there, they now have no park to attend. In this case, I'm saddened to see the park close for reasons other than my own personal benefit.

If you read my posts up to the official announcement of the park's close, you'll see that I have no emotional attachment to GL itself. But, just because I don't have an emotional attachment to something, it doesn't mean others don't.

I still think saying the people didn't come so they obviously didn't enjoy the park is short sided. Maybe they stopped coming because the prices were too high and the park was a mess? That's where I'm coming from. Cedar Fair should have cleaned it up like they led us to believe they were doing and tried to "restore" it to the days before Six Flags. Lower attendance, less rides, cheaper prices, etc...

The more I read these threads and think about the "business" side people are bringing up, the more I agree with those that say this was the plan all along.

I don't understand why being interested in things of a historical nature means having to be interested in every single thing. If you like 24 and Deadwood, does that mean you have to like CSI and Boston Legal as well? I like Big Dipper but I didn't like Hercules. Isn't it obvious why I'm talking up Big Dipper while I was pretty much indifferent to Hercules? And, just because I was indifferent to Hercules doesn't mean I thought the ride should be demolished... I was okay with it, but I didn't feel the need to make the people that felt bad about it feel any worse.

^ It doesn't. It's just that you come all off your high horse accusing everyone of being "selfish and self-serving" (page 2) because we don't share your viewpoint on this matter.

And it's too bad you feel like others are making you feel bad or any worse than you already do.

But you need to realize it's not like that. It's more like you being unable to accept what's already been set in stone and what's to come and you somehow feel like every opposing person is harrassing you or making you "feel worse." Truth is, it's simply about you not having a grip on the situation and being frustrated because others don't feel as sentimental about this ride as you do.

It has nothing at all to do with a difference of opinion. It has nothing at all to do with an inability to accept anything. It has nothing to do with me failing to have a grip on the situation. It's all about attitude, and more specifically, it's more about responding to attitude with attitude. Going back to page 1, you said:

---

In case you haven't noticed, I though Big Dipper was terrible ride (as is my opinion of the other Geauga Lake woodies). Don't give me that "oh, but it's a classic and is historical" bit. Most people could care less if the ride has history if it's a piece of sh*t.

---

You stated an opinion, and that's fine. But what you also did was basically tell people that you don't care what they have to say while more or less suggesting that your opinion is above all others. Talk about sitting high upon the horse there, pal.

Believe me, I don't feel harrassed. Like everyone else, I'm defending my side of the argument. Perhaps I come across as bothered or upset (out of control is pushing it a little), but that's the way I debate. I'm passionate about everything in life, and I can't help but argue with passion. You're the one taking things a little too far.

I can see if I did something to you personally, like make fun of your mother or steal the CD player from your car, but I didn't. I don't get all the hostility. If you want to continue to engage in a debate as we each support our own opinions, I'm all for it. But if you're going to continue to insinuate I'm some kind of raging lunatic, complaining about the slinging of arrows while you yourself are guilty of the same, it's probably best we ignore each other from here on. It's your call.

But getting back to the point I was trying to make, all things are subjective to personal preference. I was pretty pissed when Chevy discontinued the Camero a few years back. I always liked that car, and being a car enthusiast, I didn't want to see that model disappear. When Ford cancelled the Thunderbird, it didn't bother me. I haven't been a fan of the Thunderbird in years. Yet while I really didn't care about that one, it was easy to understand why others did and therefore didn't feel it necessary to make those people feel any worse. Yeah, we're talking about cold, inanimate objects here, but that doesn't mean some people don't get attached to them. Ever get attached to a house? An old t-shirt? It's the same thing. Losses are to be mourned by those that care.

^^ For someone that tells people to "take a break from the boards" and "compose" themselves, let's take a look at some memorable quotes from you:

"But seriously, get over it." (this one hour after the announcement was made)

"All I am reading about is really deep down just a bunch of whimpering over a handful of lost amusement park rides rather than anything to do with the park"

"Don't give me that 'oh, but it's a classic and is historical' bit. Most people could care less if the ride has history if it's a piece of sh*t."

"You're getting out of hand and I'm sure you don't need four more other [sic] people to tell you so."

"I could really give a rats ass if Magic Mountain were to be closed. And same said with what's going on with Geauga Lake."

Newsflash- If all this stuff bothers you so much, perhaps you need to take a break from the boards or find a new hobby.

Glad we cleared that up. Bye!

Ray P.

(edit for extra ^ as Rob's post came up before I was done) *** Edited 9/24/2007 11:51:19 PM UTC by ProgRay***

Oh, glad to know you find them memorable. :) Though I don't know why you'd quote them, I'm just telling it as it is, though probably a bit more edgier than I should have needed to make my points in the event someone sensitive like yourself were to read them.

And thanks for the newsflash, but none of it bothers me that much. That's exactly why Rob and I are having a little difference in emotion about the topic at hand. :)

And Rob, though I still don't see it the way you do, I'm going to apologize for being hypocritical and if I came off sounding hostile. You're right with some points. For those that care, they will be there to mourn and that's perfectly fine and respectable. But I also want to remind you, the whole reason there was this whole back and forth bickering was also because on your end, you couldn't deal with others difference in viewpoint about the matter -- no matter how insensitive you felt it was handled. It's how this thing got to escalate to this point. It wasn't just one side firing a gun. So we're both at fault I suppose. No hard feelings though.

Though I'd like to hint for the discussion to continue...I don't know what else should commence besides hopeful rumors as to where the other rides at Geauga Lake will go? :)

^ "Sensitive"? Eh...I've been called worse.

Ray P.