Wait time science

I was debating whether the reply to GoBicks I was composing to would be too inflammatory and Jeff kinda took care of that ;-)

Jeff:

And I encounter people with terminal illness frequently as well. Doesn't mean that it's OK or that I want it.

As someone dealing with a family member with a terminal illness, I find this comparison very offensive. Guess my family and others going through similar situations (many of them worse) can find comfort, with the devastation and challenges, we thankfully don't have to deal with front of the line issues at an amusement park. Truly a WTF comment. I would say unbelievable but that wouldn't be true. Unfortunately.

Despite the strangeness of analogizing fastlane type systems with terminal illness, I don't find anything inherently offensive about the comment. Pretty sure most of us have had people close to us who were terminal at one point or another.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure most adults have been in that situation. I volunteer in a place where I'm surrounded by it at all times. I'm getting better at identifying when my neurodivergence interferes with my reading of the room, but I don't think this is one of those times.

I'm empathetic to whatever you might be going through, but my comparison is no less absurd than declaring that crappy consumer experiences are OK because there are other crappy experiences. I loathe "everyone is doing it" reasoning in every situation.

I am curious what room you were sitting in in which it made any logical sense to compare paying for add-ons to terminal illness? How did you get to if A=B and B=C then A=C in your scenario?

I started with a lot of people get Covid, but it doesn't mean we should all get it. This seemed more dramatic. As usual, I guess it's not CoasterBuzz if people don't overthink it.

Let me break it down: Some things suck, it doesn't mean sucky things are acceptable. Replace suck with whatever common thing it is that you don't want.

Jeff:

Some things suck, it doesn't mean sucky things are acceptable.

Well, sometimes they are, I want the vacuum to suck. I also want my wi.. well you can fill in the rest of that statement.

So sucking sucks, unless you want it to suck, then sucking doesn’t suck. Have I overthought this yet?

Jeff:
I started with a lot of people get Covid, but it doesn't mean we should all get it.

We were always all getting it, we debate this to death in the whatever thread some time ago.

Vater:
Despite the strangeness of analogizing fastlane type systems with terminal illness,

Oddly enough, it’s not a bad analog, those with money get preferential treatment in the lines at the parks, and they get preferential treatment and access to better care and doctors. The rest of us get the scraps, and without more Luigi’s this will probably continue to be the norm.

Oh god, is this wait time thread about to spur off into a debate about the US healthcare system? It is, isn’t it?

Oof I’d like to think we can get to better healthcare without assassinations.

Back to wait times: what is distinct about fast-passes is the benefit conferred to one group necessarily worsens the experience of the rest. The fact that my plane has a first-class section I’m not sitting in doesn’t automatically make my flight worse (although it may in practice). The existence of luxury hotels doesn’t make my Hampton Inn terrible. Waiting while 50% of capacity goes to FPers does make my day suck.

Yes, yes, hur-dur-free market, but that doesn’t mean I have to be neutral about this example of ensuckification.

Jeff:

Let me break it down: Some things suck, it doesn't mean sucky things are acceptable.

Lots of thinks suck and you have no choice but to accept it. An amusement park example would be a ride breaking down while you are in line for it and you don't get to ride it. In what world is that unacceptable and how should it be remedied?

In fact I have seen quite the opposite on this site where someone complains about a situation like that and they are essentially told to shut up and move on with life.

I would say that the break down of the ride sucks, but is acceptable because it was an occurrence of chance, and not by design. Now if you don’t maintain your rides, and the breakdown could have been prevented, and was knowingly overlooked, then it isn’t acceptable.

When the suck is directly by design and choices made by people, then the suck isn’t as acceptable, even more so if a better alternative exists.

So which problem are they trying to solve? Long lines or making even more money?

I'm of the opinion that guest experience is the most important thing to any business. Period. So find a way to shorten the lines without allowing some people to cut in front of the rest of the guests, for free or otherwise. The only solution is (imagine this next word to have an echo...) (((HIGHER CAPACITY))).

The paper fastpasses were easy to finagle. If you knew how to abuse it, you could eliminate a lot of your wait time, even when the standby lines were pretty long. But that was back in the day, when the parks were less busy. ...Or so I hear. I had the opportunity to abuse the paper fastpass system back in the day, but I haven't been back to Disney since then, so I don't have the same experience some of you have.

I wouldn’t say that’s the only solution. You could charge more at the gate for everyone, reducing overall crowds. You could charge per ride, obviously more for the most popular ones. You could ration premier attractions by issuing each guest a limited number of E tickets. Or probably other things.

But yeah, capacity is the big and obvious one.

LostKause:

So find a way to shorten the lines without allowing some people to cut in front of the rest of the guests, for free or otherwise.

The solution is to cap the number of guests at a park to a lower number or add more attractions which space out the crowds.

it already feels like upping the cost to go to Disney is making little dent in crowds.

TheMillenniumRider:

even more so if a better alternative exists.

Better in who's eyes? I think that is the question in the case of Disney. As some have noted in this thread they see the $30 system as a benefit while others have said they don't. Who is right?

The_Orient_of_Express:

I mean, is there any business that doesn’t like rich people?

Insane Clown Posse?

Spirit Airlines?

Free Fastpass is never coming back and not just for the throwing away money thing. The system was horribly broken and the only reason we here have find memories of it was because abuse we all collectively abused the heck out of it. If you have a spare 90 min and are nerdy as heck about theme parks and queuing I highly suggest this feature length deep dive into Fastpass by Defuctland from a few years ago:

https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?si=SrPnK1Shwwqqsqi0

I still contend that, while good, that Defunctland video missed a few key points. Specifically, that for a lot of visitors, just getting on two or three rides for no wait at all and then going shopping was better than waiting 30 minutes for every ride, no matter how many they did.

Let me break it down: Some things suck, it doesn't mean sucky things are acceptable.

This is only meaningful if there is agreement on what is sucky. We agree that terminal illness is sucky. We don't agree on whether Genie+ is sucky. When I said I didn't think it was icky, you could have just said you disagreed with me. But you had already said it was icky so another statement to that effect wouldn't add anything. So, if anyone overthought anything, it was you.

Something else I find sucky is comparisons of anything involving entertainment/luxuries to something resulting in death. We disagree on that as well. Though my take on this place is it wouldn't be Coasterbuzz if you weren't taking exception for people disagreeing with you.

Who is right?

You have been here long enough to know the answer to this question.

If I had my choice, I'd rather pay extra for a day (or an evening) of controlled, lower capacity where I can wait with everyone else in "reasonable" lines than to pay extra for Lightning Lane where I'm passing people who are waiting an excruciating amount of time. I don't have a problem with waiting in line. I have a problem with waiting in an artificially longer lane (and standing still for long periods to boot) while others who paid a premium fly right by me with a giggle and a smile.

And, I think that is the point Jeff was making with DCL. That is a capacity-controlled environment, for everyone.

I've said before that the early days of Covid operations were the best visits I've had at the parks since maybe the 90s. Lower attendance, reasonable lines that moved, midways that were not over congested. It was as close to the perfect Disney experience, and that was even while being forced to wear masks in the Florida humidity.