Wait time science

Another story vaguely related to our hobby... Waiting for things depends on a lot of factors in the brain. Obviously one of the things is the potential reward. I'd love to see the experiment cover a range of ages too. I suspect the older you get, the less waiting you want to do.

I've never been able to reconcile the fact that riding roller coasters as a hobby attracts so many neurodivergent people, yet requires standing around waiting in crowds of people.

I don’t mind waiting nearly as much if I’m making progress. One of the reasons I find fast-pass schemes annoying is the feeling of not making progress through the line (and, worse, watching others whiz past me).

(Not trying to rekindle that old debate, which may be >RRR, but at least RRR is going away soon.)

I don’t mind moving lines, but if I can avoid them I do. As I get older and more successful, I can afford to pay to skip a lot more. That said, when a system isn’t worth it (looking at you WDW LLMP) I just use standby.

Do you find the system too annoying to use or just not enough of a benefit? I find that if I'm willing to invest the time into it (both before and during), I can nearly double my ride count which makes the $30 or whatever a very small price to pay.

Jeff may have mentioned elsewhere that Matt Ouimet has an interesting LinkedIn blog going. He recently spoke of Fastpass and if you read between the lines just a little I think it is apparent that he does not like what the original idea has morphed into.

I agree completely with hambone. I'd rather wait in a line that is moving at a good clip for 45 minutes than wait in a line that creeps along for 45 minutes. I think that is probably because of what standing without moving does to my back.

It’s too annoying to use, doesn’t provide much of a benefit especially at any park that’s not MK and my early entry rope drop strategy is effective enough. Too many people buy it and there are too few rides that need it.

LLMP is extremely effective at DLR and allows me to do the major E tickets at both parks (use it to obtain LL at the park I don’t rope drop.)

ApolloAndy:

I find that if I'm willing to invest the time into it (both before and during), I can nearly double my ride count which makes the $30 or whatever a very small price to pay.

This is where you and I differ. If I have to spend money and do more work, that doesn't feel like a win. Not only that, but I don't think I can ever shake the feeling that they had an awesome system that was equitable, made visiting more fun and didn't cost anything extra. LL feels icky in every way.

wahoo skipper:
He recently spoke of Fastpass...

Here is that post.

Does LL feel icky because for 20 years they had a free system in Fastpass/Fastpass+? As a local I have only paid for Genie+/LL on a few occasions. But if I were a tourist I'd be all over that system. Just like I can't imagine going back home to Ohio and not getting Fastlane at Cedar Point. I don't even think twice, but they also have charged for it since the beginning (not counting the old Freeway stamps of my youth).

Jeff:

...they had an awesome system that was equitable, made visiting more fun and didn't cost anything extra.

It's not a question of whether or not people will buy it (or if I would), it's what I said. It also feels like a cash grab, and it doesn't benefit me in any incremental way versus FP. And look, I get being benefit oriented. I've done VIP twice at WDW. But even with better attractions, the experience is "cheapened" by being made more expensive to get the same thing.

BrettV:

Does LL feel icky because for 20 years they had a free system in Fastpass/Fastpass+?

Yes. But it's the additional layer the individual lighting lane that feels icky to me. There's enough value in the app and the inclusion of photos to make Genie+ or whatever the F it's called for it to be worth it for me as a vacationer.

LL is too cheap and too expensive at the same time. It’s too expensive because of the restrictions on it, no repeat rides, scheduled return times, limited slots available and tiers. When I’m paying a premium I prefer to not have to deal with a bunch of restrictions. Premier Pass is much closer to what I want, but with there being no repeat rides allowed I won’t gravitate towards it often. It’s too cheap because too many people buy it and we get the Sydrome paradox (if everyone is special no one is) and people have to settle with paying expedited queuing for Frozen Ever After, Spaceship Earth, Living with the Land and scoring a bonus LL for Figment.

Im also an outlier, with the exception of DHS I’m perfectly happy to do the heavy hitters at rope drop and then spend midday doing shows and mid tier rides that never have long lines. DHS, does not have enough of those mid tier options.

This is also my biggest gripe. $15-$30 a day to skip the lines is a steal. But it's also overpriced if I'm, in theory, not actually guaranteed anything. I'd rather drop $100 to have the option to ride Maverick or Raptor 50 times in a row if I want than $25 to "maybe" get most of the MK headliners one time each.

That's why I still miss legacy paper Fastpass. If I want to keep getting Fastpasses for the same attraction every time I'm eligible, the only thing that stopped me was the attraction running out of Fastpasses for the day. I remember plenty of early 2000s era family trips to WDW where we would bounce between Tower of Terror and Rock N Roller Coaster several times turning 30 minute standby waits into walkons with Fastpasses over and over again since the return window was never more than 30-40 minutes past the current time on those slow days.

I don't view current process as icky. Any more than any other "pay more for better access" system (Disney or otherwise). Going to Disney you encounter such systems on the way to Orlando and multiple other times while you are there.

I suspect that this conversation reflects Disney's intent. In general, they don't want the local/regular, riding Tower of Terror for the 50th time. They want the family making a once-in-a-lifetime trip to be riding it for the 1st time. So they set the pricing and availability so it's a steal for anyone going once every few years but it's prohibitively expensive/annoying for someone who goes multiple times a year.

GoBucks89:

Going to Disney you encounter such systems on the way to Orlando and multiple other times while you are there.

Just because everyone is monetizing everything doesn't make it alright that everyone is monetizing everything. But since everyone seems happy to pay for things that used to be free of charge, that is the trend that will continue.

Businesses have always been monetizing everything. Its what they do; they aren't charities. Many of them are taking more of an a la carte approach now.

"Free" is one of the most powerful, but at the same time, misunderstood words in the English language.

Selfishly I hope Premier Pass does well, so well that Disney chooses to make that the only option, and caps them at less then half of what the current LL capacity is (which they can because Premier makes them 10x+ the profit) leading to faster standby queues and I can just use them instead.

GoBucks89:

Going to Disney you encounter such systems on the way to Orlando and multiple other times while you are there.

And I encounter people with terminal illness frequently as well. Doesn't mean that it's OK or that I want it.

Monetization is not the issue that anyone is taking up here. I don't think anyone expects the rat to open the gates for free. But you can make money in ways that people feel like they're getting value for what they paid without being nickeled and dimed or being split into classes. This is one of the reasons I still throw money at DCL. Far from being the cheapest cruise line, you board and then you eat and see shows and, on the right itineraries, visit a bunch of different countries. Concierge not withstanding, everyone has the same experience and there's no tiering.

Disney loves rich people!!

I mean, is there any business that doesn’t like rich people?