Voyage trims question

Saturday, July 16, 2016 6:52 PM

I might visit HW for the first time in the near future. I've heard about Voyage trimming on the block brake, somewhat neutering the triple drop. Is this still going on? Are the trims ever off during general operation? (I've heard that HW turns the trims off for Holliwood Nights, but I'm asking about general operation.)

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Saturday, July 16, 2016 8:03 PM

My understanding is that you'll find it all day, everyday. Don't let it spoil your trip though, I also understand the end of the ride is still rip-roarin'.

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Saturday, July 16, 2016 8:54 PM
rollergator's avatar

During HWN, I rode a couple of times near the end of normal operations...and soon after the ERT got going.

The ending of the ride was virtually the same. By the time you leave the tunnel at the end of the triple-down, the train is MOVING regardless...I think the day-night visual difference is more important than the minimal speed effect of the trimming.

Reminds me of the discussion of MForce's lift-speed... ;-)

Last edited by rollergator, Saturday, July 16, 2016 8:57 PM

You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)

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Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:26 PM

^ As an airtime fanatic, I'm a bit disappointed if the triple-down itself is messed up by trims.

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 1:04 AM

So....if you've never been on it maybe you won't miss it?
I'd say The Voyage is not generally known as an airtime machine, anyway. There are moments, but the ride's main attraction is length and unrelenting forces of a different nature. It's not the typical out and back for sure.
I think the fact that it's built up and over a natural hill makes it unique, and while on the ride (and certainly from videos) it's not always that apparent. Regardless, the whole return trip is a bit of design genius. Beginning with that triple-down tunnel it follows downhill topography and, as Mr Gator points out, that alone naturally causes some amazing speed by the time you fly by the station. And there's still more to come after that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a whole lot more to like about the ride, it's awesome, and I'd caution you not to worry that much about it so early in your experience. (I guess I'd also advise you to sit in the back to make the most of whatever that triple has to offer nowadays.)
I'm a fan of airtime too, but I've never thought that brief moment of air was necessarily a highlight over the rest of the trip. Really, I think you'll find you should've never even brought it up.

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 12:36 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

They were trimming with the MCBR on Juky 4 weekend. The triple down lost a little bite, but the ride was still insane.


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Sunday, July 17, 2016 1:59 PM

^^I get "salty" over trim brakes :P. Maybe I'll go to Holliwood Nights next year, though.

Does anybody have any experience of a no-trims ride in the past month or so?

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 2:03 PM
Jeff's avatar

First of all, if you've never been on it before, you have nothing to compare to, so it doesn't matter.

Second, people are whiny bitches and not to be trusted.

Being objective as I can, The Voyage has always run too fast in the second half. While I imagine that wasn't good for the ride, it wasn't great for the riders either. I realize there is a subset of masochistic enthusiasts that want to be beat up, but I'm not among them. I had a lap last year on the media day for Thunderbird, and the speed check at the midcourse did not detract from the ride, and I would in fact say that it improved my enjoyment of it.

And remember, the reason that midcourse block brakes double as trims is because the rides are designed to be able to finish the course from a complete stop at that point. In order to do that, there has to be some compromise in design that both allows that dead-stop finish as well as "normal" completion of the ride. Parks are not slowing trains just to piss off enthusiasts, they're doing it to keep the trains running within the ride's design spec. (No one is fanatical about this as B&M, I would add... Swiss engineering and what not.) Enthusiasts of all people should understand the science and not be idiots about it.


Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:51 PM

^I understand that. I play NL2, and while that is much less scientific than real coaster design, you have to be mindful of the "e-stop test" so the ride can make it through even if it comes to a stop on the MCBR.

Because I hate to trim on the MCBR, I typically build a "low and fast" section with speed hills at the end, allowing the ride to fly through the MCBR without having to surpass any extreme hills.

Voyage seems to be built this way too - it goes through the MCBR, picks up a LOT of speed, and goes through a section with lots of low hills and twisted turns. It seems to have only used the trims in 2007 and 2015-now. I understand that the ride beats itself up, being a giant, twisted woodie with PTC trains. (I've heard people say, in fact, that Voyage is about the limit of what you should try to do with traditional woodie track.) Hopefully they can do some slight modification to keep the intense triple-down. Maybe they plan to do a bit of work to the end and are turning the trims on now in the interim to keep the end from becoming too rough?

Last edited by GigaG, Sunday, July 17, 2016 3:52 PM
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Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:02 PM
Jeff's avatar

So what I hear you saying is that, you understand all of that, but your NoLimits expertise explains away the need to trim some speed off.

There is about 70 feet of elevation change from the area of the midcourse to the station. Think about that for a minute. That's about the height of Blue Streak at Cedar Point. From ground level, the train will descend 70 feet. It hits the final brakes pretty hard even with the midcourse adjustment.


Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:18 PM

I am not wanting to hijack this thread, but do have a question, and I am wondering if I just missed the answer on this; what was the reason the Timberliners were not used? I remember them testing and testing and testing them, but don't recall why they decided to use the PTCs instead.


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Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:23 PM

And really, like I say, the triple down even at full speed was ok, but not the "best thing ever" that you seem to have your heart set on. And for me it's certainly not a deal breaker. Truthfully, KW's Jack Rabbit is still more effective. If you are sure this is going to ruin your trip to HW or keep you from going then I don't know what to say.
Wait, yes I do. Ride Raven in the back. There's your air.

And SVLfever, no one here really knows, but for some reason the park didn't like them. After waiting a long time for it to be right (wasn't it a couple of seasons?) they finally said "no thanks" and gave up on em. I don't think it was a deal gone bad or a relationship ruiner, but it didn't work out. In the meantime those trains have been used successfully at other parks, I think Sweden got the first set, and Quassy has them, so it's a mystery.

Last edited by RCMAC, Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:29 PM
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Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:46 PM

Jeff said:

So what I hear you saying is that, you understand all of that, but your NoLimits expertise explains away the need to trim some speed off.

There is about 70 feet of elevation change from the area of the midcourse to the station. Think about that for a minute. That's about the height of Blue Streak at Cedar Point. From ground level, the train will descend 70 feet. It hits the final brakes pretty hard even with the midcourse adjustment.

Not exactly what I meant. Just that I kind of realized Voyage reminded me of my own style of "design it for no trimming, but still passing the E-Stop test.) I don't mean to come across as a smart-a**.

For the actual ride forces, I imagine Voyage was designed to run without MCBR, considering that it seems to have run that way for most of its life if I have my facts right. I figure that it's only on now to reduce wear.

A bit of an outlandish idea, and a bit off topic... considering that Voyage in its current state runs 2 24-passenger trains, would HW ever consider having GCI equip it with Millenium Flyers, which would make a minimal dent in capacity? They just had GCI make some significant changes to Legend's profile, so maybe they'll continue to use GCI for renovations.

(On another note, I'd say GCI should renovate Voyage, but I'm a bit worried that they might make some small reprofile changes that would take some bite from the ride. I've heard Ghostrider was made a bit less forceful through reprofiling - having ridden the the old and new version, I'd say GR as it is this year not "uber-intense", but it is very fun, smooth, and has some moments of nice air. As for the MCBR, I'd almost say that Voyage needs it so that dispatch intervals don't have to be obnoxiously long even with 2 trains, but GR is pretty long too. However, the new GR has atrocious capacity. However, if it actually doesn't dent capacity much, I'd say that HW should take the MCBR off Voyage if GCI renovates it, much like what happened with Ghostrider.)

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:16 PM

I think The Voyage was designed for three trains, but for some reason they never went with it.
I'm always curious as to why so many enthusiasts need to come up with ways for parks to redo and essentially "fix" coasters. And I REALLY wonder about these ideas when they come from someone who's never ridden, making it impossible for them to even have an honest opinion.

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Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:54 PM

Try all you want, but you guys are not going to get in the way of this guy being disappointed with Voyage.


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Monday, July 18, 2016 12:40 AM

I'll admit it, I'm the kind of guy who complains about trims. Sorry if I'm making a fool of myself.

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Monday, July 18, 2016 6:53 AM

This will test my memory a little, bit as I recall, Voyage opened with three PTC trains. When they planned to switch to Timberliners, they sold two of the three PTC trains. When the Timberliners were't put on, they bought one additional PTC train.

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Monday, July 18, 2016 7:03 AM

Jeff said:

...The Voyage has always run too fast in the second half. While I imagine that wasn't good for the ride, it wasn't great for the riders either.

...the speed check at the midcourse did not detract from the ride, and I would in fact say that it improved my enjoyment of it.

Sounds about right to me.

I finally got around to riding The Voyage for the first time this year, with the trims of course. Given how out-of-control the ride is with the trims, there's absolutely now way I'd want to experience it without them.


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Monday, July 18, 2016 10:30 AM
Jeff's avatar

GigaG said:
For the actual ride forces, I imagine Voyage was designed to run without MCBR, considering that it seems to have run that way for most of its life if I have my facts right.

While it could run that way, it doesn't mean it was designed to.

The truth is, I could ask the guys who designed it, but it's not their place to speak for the park on how they choose to run the ride. I also suspect that if you were to ask James Olliver, HW's VP of development, he'd give you a pretty straight answer. Regardless, this mental block you have about trimming rides is at odds with the reality of how long rides with multiple blocks are designed.


Jeff - Webmaster/Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Twitter - Video

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Monday, July 18, 2016 12:08 PM

I have been a Voyage fanatic since day one! That is why I got married on it.

Yes, the trims take a bit out of triple-down. But, like others have mentioned, it regains so much speed and does not take away from overall ride experience.

Last year, on the Friday of HWN, I rode it 97 times that day. The trims were not consistent throughout the day. Many rides they were on, some they were not. Sometimes heavy. Sometimes light. Some ride-ops stated that they were computer controlled and adjusted to the weight & speed of train. That does make sense. BUT, not that day. There were times the train was full and trims would be on one time and then not the next. Just weird observation.

My only complaint with the MCBB is the way it grabs. I wish they could slow the train more gradually than sudden jerk-stop.

Again, still love the ride. Only wish I could have made it up there this year!

Last edited by CoffinBoy, Monday, July 18, 2016 12:08 PM

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