Vekoma/Arrow worked together?

A few things:

On Drachen Fire, Arrow didn't refer to the element as a cobra roll, although the exact name they used escapes me. I want to say they called it a batwing.

When was the first B&M with a cobra roll? I know that their first Inverted with a cobra roll was Raptor, but I do not know how many non-inverted coasters they built before that with cobra rolls. I think Kumba was their first sit-down rollercoaster, and Drachen Fire predated Kumba by a year or two.

Arrow built numerous coastrers with batwings/kamikaze curves/boomerangs, which are essentially upside-down or inside-out cobra rolls.

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Cameraman said:
I thought the "Drachen Fire was designed by B&M" rumor was disproved a long time ago? I even remember a formal letter from B&M that specifically stated that they had no involvement with Drachen Fire posted by someone who inquired B&M with a few questions.

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Yes, because B&M would really openly acknowledge they had a part in such a disaster of a ride. Honestly, use some common sense.

-Nate

If even one more person brings up this stupid B&M to Arrow Drachen Fire thing this thread is closed.

IT NEVER HAPPENED.

I was afraid of that. That was kinda my point, I think.

Thank You Jeff, it was getting really old, really quick.

Its common knowledge that Vekoma used some Arrow Tech. in their rides, their sitdowns and suspendeds. I suppose they took some of those ideas, expanded on them, and came up with some of their own stuff. Personally, I like both Vekoma and Arrow coasters, not all are totally bad.

Carolina Cyclone is a great coaster. For a while, it started to get rough, but, as Gator likes to point out, the wood was running great this year, and the Steel @ Carowinds was running like hot butter on a plate. I couldn't tell a difference between Vortex(B&M), and Carolina Cyclone(Arrow). Even Runaway Reptar(Vekoma) felt like the other two, though none compared to Top Gun, my fav. inverted coaster, hands down.

Which, to me, says that there can be some good to come out of Arrow's early stuff.

But what do I know, I liked Shockwave...

Stan-

The business arrangements with Huss and S&S were/are not partnerships. In the first case Huss had controlling interest in the Arrow company and all of its intellectual property, in the second it was bought outright.

Adam

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Vater said:
I thought Ninja was actually designed by Vekoma, and just used Arrow trains. Maybe I'm just assuming here, but it seems odd to me that Kamikaze (Ninja's original name)--built in '89--has no straight sections of track from the top of the lift to the brakes, yet some of Arrow's later designs do, such as Anaconda ('91) and Drachen Fire ('92). The only exception to this that I can think of is SFStL's Ninja, which looks like it has more Arrow-like transitions than it's sibling in Georgia. So that could conceivably blow my theory to pieces, but I'll still stand by it, because I'm stubborn like that.

But still, SFoG's Ninja, if it was solely designed by Vekoma, would explain the similarities between it and the modern SLC. *** Edited 12/1/2003 7:36:26 PM UTC by Vater***

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I didn't clip anything from the quote because I think it is all worthy of being noted.

If you take a look at Kamikaze/Ninja and then a look at Parc Asterix's Goudurix, you'll see a lot of similarities in the first half of both rides, especially in the transitions between the loops. Given that, I would say that Ninja is a Vekoma-only design. The Ninja at SFStL, on the other hand, was an Arrow/Vekoma venture and is credited to both companies.

Kamikaze/Ninja also does bear many similarities to Vekoma's SLC- whether that's a coincidence or not is another story altogether.

No. Arrow-Vekoma *never* did any ride designing together. Vekoma rides are Vekoma rides, Arrow rides are Arrow rides. Vekoma was just allowed the use of Arrow's technology (that is, the design of their track) and Arrow supplied trains for their rides. That's it.

-Nate

So basically the technology that Vekoma used was just the design of the track?

Yes. They also purchased Arrow trains for all of their rides before 1997.

-Nate

Nope.... The Hersheypark Sidewinder started using a Vekoma train in the early 90's. Then, 1995 brought the DLP Space Mountain with 6 Vekoma trains.

Actually, Hershey's Sidewinder opened with Arrow trains. They just replaced the bodies with Vekoma shells a year later, but all the wheel assemblies are Arrow. Still, you are basically right - some rides did open with Vekoma trains, but those are the few exceptions. The vast majority of pre-1997 Vekoma rides opened with Arrow trains.

-Nate

Let's not forget too the various non looping coasters they did. They did the Space Center at Phantasialand (now Temple of the Night Hawk) which use a few Vekoma trains in the 80's. In 1992, they opened 2 mine trains: Colorado (now Calamity Mine) at SFB and BTM at DLP. Both use Vekoma trains.