I read in the Rollercoaster Book by Cokey (too lazy to get the whole name, book is in my bedroom), that the Ninja in Georgia was made by Vekoma and Arrow. Did they used to be one company, then split with the departure of a few employees(like how B&M formed from walter and claude left intamin, or how interactive rides formed from the departure of gary slade from S&S( what Mr. Slade told me at IAAPA)).
As I understand it, it was a licensing deal that allowed (in principle) Arrow entree into the european market and allowed Vekoma access to rollercoaster technology that they did not have nor would likely have developed on their own. Vekoma paid Arrow for the right to use Arrow's technology/patents. If my understanding is incorrect, then hopefully someone will correct and we can all be enlightened.
Heck, all you need to do to is ride a Vekoma / Arrow and you tell ME if they're not the same company... I can count on one FINGER the number of rides built by Vekoma that I would ride again.... if it was ever operating. Deja Vu. That's it.... well, maybe invertigo at PGA... ok, but only those two. As for Arrow? NONE of their traditional coasters, but I'll ride Ninja or any other suspended all day... and I'll ride X.
Marimba - it's not so much that the trains are interchangeable as it is that Vekomas just used to use Arrow trains up until the late 90s.
I'm under the same impression of the Arrow/Vekoma relationship as prabe. And while neither company is known for silky smooth rides, I think Vekomas are noticeably "rougher" because their designs tend to lack any straight-line elements. They almost constantly twist, whereas early Arrows had straight drops, and fairly simple turns and transitions.
^Where do you see arrow/vekoma bashing in this thread? O.K. escher was ranting a bit, but the other posts are dealing with similarities and differences of said companies in a productive way.
And yes, Arrow earned money on every Vekoma installation that used the Arrow track. I don´t know if this licensing contract is still intact. The Invertigo and Flyer track is a further development and is "Vekomas own". I have no idea about the SLC track: Is it just Arrows design turned upside down? Or is it a genuine design?
If you look at the trackdesign of early Arrow loopers and corkscrews you will notice that they indeed look different from the Vekoma track that they used from their first coaster in 1979 onward.
(Pointing to the "Jolly Roger" thread: If rcdb.com is right, the Corkscrew that used to be there is the first ever built Vekoma coaster. It was the one which was originally built as a fairground coaster. But it was soon sold to "Traumlandpark" which would later become Warner Bros Movie World Germany)
I thought Ninja was actually designed by Vekoma, and just used Arrow trains. Maybe I'm just assuming here, but it seems odd to me that Kamikaze (Ninja's original name)--built in '89--has no straight sections of track from the top of the lift to the brakes, yet some of Arrow's later designs do, such as Anaconda ('91) and Drachen Fire ('92). The only exception to this that I can think of is SFStL's Ninja, which looks like it has more Arrow-like transitions than it's sibling in Georgia. So that could conceivably blow my theory to pieces, but I'll still stand by it, because I'm stubborn like that. ;)
But still, SFoG's Ninja, if it was solely designed by Vekoma, would explain the similarities between it and the modern SLC. *** Edited 12/1/2003 7:36:26 PM UTC by Vater***
tricktrack, Carolina Cyclone, IMO, was still a pretty decent ride when I was there this Spring...with the wood running like CRAZY, certainly didn't get more than an obligatory lap....but it was pretty good...:)
The Vegas coaster in the Adventuredome I didn't care for as much, but others tell me I got the *unusually bad ride* rather than a typical ride on CB (the other CB, Canyon Blaster)...;)
The Jolly Roger thread makes me sad....opporrtunities lost...:(
I don't understand the confusion in this thread. The coasters credited to Vekoma (ie Boomerangs, Vekoma corkscrews/split corkscrews such as Knoebels' Whirlwind and SFNO's Jester, and the SFoG & SFStL Ninja coasters) were Vekoma designed and built; they just used Arrow technology. To rephrase, all of the coasters out there credited to Vekoma were actually designed and built by Vekoma. They just used the same track design as Arrow coasters (which was licensed from Arrow) and, pre-1997, Arrow trains. That certainly doesn't make them Arrow rides.
-Nate (who finds Vekoma corkscrews infinitely better than the Arrow counterparts)
I thought the "Drachen Fire was designed by B&M" rumor was disproved a long time ago? I even remember a formal letter from B&M that specifically stated that they had no involvement with Drachen Fire posted by someone who inquired B&M with a few questions.
The whole "Drachen Fire was designed by B&M" thing doesn't seem to have mush support from what I have seen/read/heard. I think maybe it's one of those things like Magnum sinking into Lake Erie. Show me documentation and I'll consider it.
That was a major reason that the ride was so rough and transitioned badly. Arrow used the calculations that were already in place, not considering train weight, wheel assemblies, and other factors that weigh in on speed and friction, thus the roughness. Also, how many Arrow coasters can you think of with a Cobra Roll? I know of none, and that is the story I have heard with and read on websites, though the sites (other than coasterf-orce.com, escape me). I could be wrong but that is what i have read.