UPDATE: Insurance company won't pay for VertiGo failure

Cry me a river. If you put your opinion out in public, prepare to have it picked apart, ripped on and disputed. If you can't handle that, stay home, lock the doors and never connect to the Internet. I'm not trying to "get back" at you. I'm debating your "points" as invalid. It's what we do here in the marketplace of ideas.

The park could have done all of those things if 1) They felt they could quickly recover the cost (return on investment) and 2) They didn't already have said elements in other coasters. It's the same reason that MF isn't a series of bunny hills like Magnum.

You made the most fundamentally ridiculous statement about business I've ever read (the part about them being "greedy") and we called you on it. As a unit holder, I trust that the company does what's right to make money, not piss it away. Those millions of dollars they want to recover are a part of the cash flow that eventually has an impact on my distribution, and they'd be doing their unitholders a disservice to not go after it.

And get over the "love Cedar Point" crap. The park's biggest fans are easily their biggest critics, so don't bother even going there. Don't further cloud the issue with nonsense about them "killing a lot of riders by mistake." Not only is it ridiculous to say you can predict what people would say, it didn't happen in the first place.

Stick to facts young man.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Alright I'm sorry. I understand now. I won't express my opinion anymore if that will make everyone feel better.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this spring!

*** This post was edited by XFan 2/13/2003 1:31:05 PM ***

/me smacks head in disbelief

You're totally missing the point. Nobody feels bad in the first place. You aren't going to manipulate anyone into feeling bad for you. If you have an opinion, stick by it, enforce it with logic or at least strong convictions and go with it. That's what happens when you put yourself out there. Learn to deal with it.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

SteelMonsters, what about CF continuing to operate PP at Knotts even though someone died? Or Montezooma? And why didn't (or did they?) they sue TOGO and have them redesign Windjammer so it could operate correctly?

"It's the same reason that MF isn't a series of bunny hills like Magnum."

Tell me another one! Ever heard of Gemini? If your point was true, they shouldn't have built Magnum with bunny hills. Or they shouldn't have built Gemini with bunny hills because of Blue Streak. Or they shouldn't have built Raptor with a loop and corkscrews (or flat spins) since Corkscrew already had them. You make absolutely no sense.

"The park's biggest fans are easily their biggest critics, so don't bother even going there."

Is this a fact? Can I see some figures or a press release?

XFan, if it is indeed just an opinion (for example, you think CP is the best park in the world), you can't be wrong. If you think CP is greedy, I don't understand how you're wrong either. I didn't see an official press release where they gave everyone there a lie detector test to see if they were or not and results that they weren't. Maybe they are greedy and they still know how to run a good business.

-Danny

XFan, you say that TDD should have an airtime hill?

You DO realize that at the speed the train will be going, said "airtime hill" would need to either be very tall, or very long, either way adding a LOT of expense to the ride for "a simple hill". If instead there were a trim before said hill to bleed off speed and make it safe, then Cedar Point would be panned for the trim. Either way, it's a can't-win situation for the park to try to extend the ride.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"Friendship -- more lasting than love, more legal than stalking."

Get over it Danny, you whine just as much.

They operate Perilous Plunge because the error was one of operation, not a failure of the ride. The woman never should've been allowed to ride. You'll never hear that as the official line for the sake of satisfying CalOSHA, but you know it's true.

Regarding why MF was built as it was, don't take my word for it. I make that statement only repeating what Dick Kinzel said. I agree with him 100%, and furthermore after being in the business this long and having the only thing on the NYSE, or in my portfolio, that isn't sucking wind right now in this ugly economy, I tend to value his opinion.

Blah blah blah bias crybaby. Nothing irritates me more than people who can't make an argument and instead resort to accusations of bias and other such nonsense. What's next, your mamma jokes?

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM*** This post was edited by Jeff 2/13/2003 2:22:08 PM ***

And nothing irritates me more than someone who has to be nitpicky, contradicts themselves, and goes to name-calling. I can take light humor jokes about spelling or grammar against someone before a mean-spirited reply. That's the kind of person that I think should lock themselves indoors and never connect to the internet. It should be a lot easier to just pass up what you think is nonsense and move on, correct? I'll have to think about that myself.

No "your mamma" jokes from me. I'm not like that. Since you're accusing me of "whining" though, I'd like to know where. I've gone too far if that sounds like a whine.

Thanks for addressing two of my many questions anyways.

One more though: If people heard that it was the fault of a KBF employee leading to someone's death, do you think that would be just as bad as a ride breaking?

-Danny*** This post was edited by Koaster King 2/13/2003 2:48:38 PM ***

I agree with you, Dan. Cedar Point is great park, but sometime they made mistakes, we make mistakes too. but all of us should express about our thoughts, instead you just shot it down. I thought CB is a great site where everyone may speak freely, (I don't mean swearing). Please get over it. Just drop this.

Gregleg: you are right about TTD, I never thought about that.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this spring!

Sure thing XFan and I agree that if you respect your visitors, they'll have the same amount of respect back for you! The site is too incredible for people to start turning away because they don't feel they can post their thoughts without getting attacked for it. It's supposed to be fun!

-Danny

Right. If you are reading this Jeff, if you give respects to us then we will give respects back to you. We may be wrong, but we still stick to our own opinions. You can correct us if we are wrong, but not in mean-streak way like Dan said.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this spring!

You should realize that you should think before you post and if you did that it would make everyone's life a whole lot easier.

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Race for the Sky
Top Thrill Dragster
Cedar Point 2003

Todd: read my post. I accepted that I'm wrong about posting before I think. I won't do it again. But Jeff still shot us down.

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RCT2 recreation of SFNE coming this summer!

This is dorky. Threads like this really shouldn't get this dumb. Admit your mistakes, see that Cedar Point and S&S had a thing going and it fell apart (literally, haha) and that you don't have a say in the matter. Besides, I'm sure Jeff has better things to do than to argue with you and show you why you're not being logical in your opinion.

On topic: I hope S&S and Cedar Fair can stay in business with each other. I know S&S is going to make some crazy rides in the future and I'd love to see them at some Cedar Fair parks. A Screaming Squirrel, S&S wood, or Sky Swatter would be a great addition to any park, and CF would be missing out if they did anything bad with S&S. As the statement above says, "we expect this matter to be resolved shortly." We can only hope for the best.

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I was asked to describe X in one word. The word? -- OhmygoshwhathaveIgottenmyselfintothisisthescariest
thingintheworldhelpmeIamgoingtodieAHHHH!!!

Actually, I've gotta go with CP on this one....sure, TTD won't have any of the *normal coaster elements* that you might expect to see....and I think that's precisely the point. They want something different, something unique, and something that will give good ROI...I'm willing to bet that TTD does JUST that....sure, it's tall and fast, even "record-breakingly" so....

...but what's important is that it's HIGHLY marketable, and adds to the VARIETY of thrills available at CP. Is it *perfect*? What IS? The point is, from the viewpoint of the park and esp. the investors...."How long is it gonna take for me to get back my $25M"...(borrowed without permission, LOL)...

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Never go unarmed into a battle of wits...

I personally don't care what CP does in this case or what they did with TTD (and I never did care if you thought so earlier LOL). There are so many other great parks and coasters out there that this is only a blip to me on the radar screen. But I wanted to take a stand for the right to an opinion (and that was about the only thing I was referring to)! lol ;)

I don't want to get back into the details of what originally happened to make VertiGo break to begin with, but is there anything special about the supports that haven't been used with countless skyscrapers, skyflyers, parachute drops, etc.? Could it be CP's fault? I apologize for not knowing everything about the original incident, but this all sounds really strange to me.

-Danny, who forgot which site he was on when he mentioned something remotely negative about Cedar Fair
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"Thank you for not shooting me" -Bowling for Columbine

XFan, Dannyboy: Every time somebody disagrees with you it's taken as personal. That's weak, and you've illustrated the point I was making. Nobody is being "attacked." It has zero to do with "respects" and everything to do with arguing a point. If you don't know the difference, again, perhaps you just should quit. Posting a follow up to someone who blasts your point with "boo hoo I'm being attacked" only makes your argument weaker.

Does anybody take debate or speech or anything of that nature in school anymore?

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Jeffy: I have no problem whatsoever with disagreement (where did I ever disagree??? LOL). I don't even like to argue, but when you're using name-calling (crybaby), I disagree there. I don't know if you want the new members of the site to stay for more than a few days, but I do as long as they can fit it well. Maybe that's the point you're trying to make, but then it feels like only the strong survive (which is probably true). If I felt like you were attacking me (which I didn't lol), I wouldn't be here as long as I have. ;)

I had some serious questions up there and you still blew them off and did the runaround. It's ok though. I'm sure I'll find the answers somewhere else.

I guess with most of the arguement stuff, you weren't talking to me, because everything I said were questions. I wasn't trying to make a point or anything. I really wanted to know.

What weakens your arguement is using things like: "What planet are you from?" "Blah blah blah bias crybaby." "Cry me a river.", etc. Please don't do that, because you generally do have great arguements behind that. Yeah, I'm still not too "hard" to give someone a compliment.

-Danny

What are your relevant questions. One by one... what are they?

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

1) You answered a part of this one: What about CF continuing to operate PP at Knotts even though someone died? What makes this case any different than a ride breaking? (could answer along with question 3)

2) Or Montezooma? And why didn't (or did they?) they sue TOGO and have them redesign Windjammer so it could operate correctly?

3) If people heard that it was the fault of a KBF employee leading to someone's death, do you think that would be just as bad as a ride breaking?

4) *not incredibly relevant, but I was wondering* Why is your point any more valid than mine here?: Tell me another one! Ever heard of Gemini? If your point was true, they shouldn't have built Magnum with bunny hills. Or they shouldn't have built Gemini with bunny hills because of Blue Streak. Or they shouldn't have built Raptor with a loop and corkscrews (or flat spins) since Corkscrew already had them.

5) Can CF/CP be greedy and still know how to run a good business?

6) I don't want to get back into the details of what originally happened to make VertiGo break to begin with, but is there anything special about the supports that haven't been used with countless skyscrapers, skyflyers, parachute drops, etc.? Could it be CP's fault? I apologize for not knowing everything about the original incident, but this all sounds really strange to me.

If you can help me answer these questions, you'll be on top of my list for a St. Olaf fun pack! :)

-Danny*** This post was edited by Koaster King 2/14/2003 11:35:18 AM ***

1) Again, the ride's failure was not mechanical or structural.

2) What happened to Monte? I mean, aside from the aneurism? They did sue TOGO. Search the news.

3) What does this have to do with VertiGo?

4) The difference in magnitude between Magnum and Gemini is significant. Mix in the fact the difference in technologies over the last 30 years and it makes the point perfect valid. Furthermore, there is an obvious and significant issue with cost and design. Dragster already cost $25 million, and as GregLeg pointed out, the construction of even a single extra hill would be huge because it would need to be large enough to accomodate the speed.

5) That's a fundamentally invalid question. The purpose of any business is to make money. You don't go into business to make just a little money or "enough" money, you go into business to make as much as you can. If you equate making money with greed, then, sure whatever you want to think.

6) Skyscapers, coasters, etc., aren't free-standing 260-foot poles. See RideMan's statements about vortex shedding that led to the eventual failure of the column. The reason it didn't previously fail is because of the cable attached to the ride vehicle, which stabilized the column in wind. When the cable was removed for the winter, apparently as part of S&S's suggested winterization, it was able to oscillate in a manner that caused the failure of the column. I hardly see how the park, who didn't engineer the ride, could forsee that.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM