to the Front of the line...

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:49 PM
First time poster, but I am a LONG time reader of CoasterBuzz, and coaster enthusiast!

This weekend I was at Kings Island, and let me say I am impressed with the cleanliness of the park since CedarFair has taken over. I think it's a great start.

But my real question about the park is the rules of people getting to "skip the line" and go in through the exit. I understand due to some people physical limitations some people aren't able to wait in line and with that I don't have a problem. But on Monday when I was at KI waiting inline for the Vortex a gentlemen with a knee brace got to go right up to the exit (within 3 rides) and got to ride in the front car. Now that I have an understanding about. But since I was waiting for the front seat there were about 5 rides ahead of me. So while I was waiting for those 5 rides, another person came up and was able to get in the front seat. (still not a problem) well finally after waiting and waiting, and we are the next to ride. Guess who pops up at the exit, that same gentleman that just got off 5 rides ago. He's wanting to get on again, well I was praying that the ride OP wouldn't ask me to wait, b/c let me tell you I would have said, he needs to go somewhere else. But as I get in and pull down the OTSR, the ride OP asks the next gentlemen if he could wait so the other gentleman can ride. How is this fair? I waited at least an extra 15 or so minutes for the front seat (on top of the 20 - 30 minute wait for the ride)and this guy got to ride the front seat 2 times in less than 10 or so minutes. I don't see how that is fair. Now what really made me frustrated is it happened again that same day on the Beast, with the same guy.

So in short what are the rules for those type of riders as terms of wait time and number of times they can ride? I mean I think its completely wrong that he can ride the ride (in the front seat) 2 times and I'm waiting in line for a long period. I believe it should be equal, as I'm paying the same price as he is.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:54 PM
Let me tell you though, most of those people can't staty the whole day. My grandmother has the same problem, she has a serious knee issue. And we usually stay at Disneyland for like 3-4 hours. While we may skip the lines so that she may actually get onto the ride, we are out of the park due to her being exhausted way earlier than anyone else.

And I'm sure if you asked disabled people, they would rather wait in line for 20 or so more minutes and have a fine knee.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:02 PM
My mom is disabled, and a LOT of parks do it a LOT of different ways. Some parks just ask you to go to the exit, some parks have a punch card which allows you to go to the exit once per attraction, and some parks have something almost like Six Flags "Flash Pass" where you go to a ride op, and they write a time to come back at based upon how long the regular line is (basically, it makes the person wait the same amount of time, just not in the line). I've personally never had the problem that you had, but I can see where you might be irritated. I know BGE offers disabled riders the option to ride once or twice without leaving their seat, and when they sit in the front row (or what ever row you may be waiting in for that matter) that can be very frustraiting. Especially as it almost ALWAYS seems that disbaled riders want the full two rides on the coasters when they choose the front seat.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:11 PM
Knoebels has a policy that you can only ride twice in a row.

Hershey has an unusual attraction (THe name escapes me) where you have to climb up a tower and slide down in a raft. It's not a water-park attraction, but a clothes-stay-on slide. What gets me is that if someone, anyone, is able to climb to the top of that thing, how could they be considered handicapped?

I also have issues with groups that in the name of "staying together" think that they can just barrell through the line.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:20 PM
The problem that they need to fix is row priority. People entering with an exit pass SHOULD NOT get to choose their row, they should just act as seat fillers.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:25 PM
So disabled people should have less rights at parks than able-bodied guests?

It's common now at chain parks for them to be assigned a ride time that is approximately the same as the current wait time in line. How is it any different for them to pick a row than it is for any of us in line to pick a row?

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:35 PM

Richie Reflux said:

I also have issues with groups that in the name of "staying together" think that they can just barrell through the line.


I did run into the usual groups staying together at Idlewild and Kennywood this weekend, but neither day was crowded so it wasn't a problem. The thing that astounded me was that while waiting for the Racer there was a group of at least 10 people in front of us. Some of their friends came into the line a couple of switchbacks behind and this group of 10 told everyone between them and their friends to go on ahead of them as they would wait for their friends. When was the last time anyone saw THAT happen?

Tom

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:38 PM
Nicalapegus-

I understand that part of not being there as long. But I think they should have some kind of time limit allowed between those two rides on the same coaster. In this case people that were waiting for that ride saw the same guy ride 2 times before they could even ride one time. The people behind me weren't happy either as they were waiting just as long, if not longer than I and anyone else. That is my only reason for asking about the situation.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:20 PM
I think that staying with the group is just an excuse, and often time the handicap person isnt even riding. I think that if the person who has the handicap isnt going to ride the other people should wait in line with the rest of the normal people. If they are going to ride I think that them and how many people it takes to fill up that row should ride and not their entire group.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:21 PM
I actually did a paper in school about disabled access to park attractions a buch of years back. PKI was one of the parks I looked into.

Back then a guest that wasn't able to wait in line was given a disability guide that basically acted like a q-bot where attendants would assign a time for exit clearance. The guest and 3 others would be allowed to ride twice if they wanted to. Sounds like the guy got off and realized he wanted to ride again and got then was able to get back on. Not sure if CF changed the policy but probably not.

This was a bit of a grey area on the policy but can understand how it would be frustrating if you're waiting for the front row.

I've worked as a ride operator in a few parks and was a bit frustrating when the policy was being abused. The problem is a family would bring grandma who obviously had some walking issues, get the pass, then try to use the exit clearance when grandma had no intention of riding.

Remember I was operating a looping coaster back in the mid 90s A grandma group came up the exit waving the disabled pass. So the attendant went to seat them. The kids obnoxiously ran over to their seats, I motioned for grandma to follow she said "I'm not riding that thing!" So I explained that the pass was designed to accomodate her, but since the kids were able to wait in line they would need to do so if she wasn't riding. We unlocked the kids and sent the angry group on their way. They made a bee line for guest relations and thew a fit, grandma said "I'm not going to sit around waiting for them"!!!... In the end management called back and said to let them on to get them out of their hair. The lines weren't very long that day so they probably spent more time in guest relations than they would have waiting like everyone else.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:53 PM
I know what you mean KI, here is a good one for you that just makes my blood boil.

So back in 02 (whenever TTD opened) my friend and I traveled to CP. There were 2 teenagers (one in a wheelchair) so at first everything was cool.

They got up to one of the coasters and the kid in the wheelchair puts on this act about not walking correctly. Why do I say act and not totally real?

Imagine my surprise when a couple hours later I see the 2 teenagers again but this time the one that was pushing is now sitting in the wheelchair and the one that was sitting before is now pushing and running and they abuse the system and get in right away while General Public has to wait 1 - 2 hours for one ride on a roller coaster.

I should have tripped the punk so then he would have a legitimate claim to needing a wheelchair.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:36 PM
I don't want to make a degrading remark, but I think this post is being looked at wrong. You can see just by reading the above posts, there are a few people just waiting for a good fight. They don't care what he subject is, they just want to get in a debate.

I think what the original post is refering to is 1, the guy is in a knee brace, and 2 his abuse of the exit pass.

Unfortunatly, we don't live in a society of honest people, thats just a fact. And its because of people who know how to and look for ways to abuse the system, that we start questions everybody, even the people who are ligitamely disabled. Sad to say, but it those people who need it, that most times probably won't even use exit passes or avoid the park all together, because fear of people judging them, because of people like Mr knee brace, with no reservation, has no problem jumping on the front seat twice. These people truely don't care

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:44 PM
Gary B-

You're kinda right. My main question is "what is the policy on that situation?" I'm not going after anyone that has a problem and is disabled by any means (heck I'm only 24, and I could be in that very position in 10 or 15 years)

But my curiosity is, was this an oversight of the ride ops? or maybe KI has something that needs to be fixed.

Like I said above, I had to wait 40 minutes for 1 ride on the front seat, where as I saw some one get 2 rides in 10 or so minutes on the front seat. Something just doesn't seem right there to me. And wondering if anyone had any ideas / thoughts on the policy at KI or any other park.

(edited a couple of minor SP mistakes) *** Edited 5/30/2007 12:48:55 AM UTC by KICoasterDude***

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:59 PM
I get it! Your not atacking Disabled people, neither am I. I am only 25, so my feeling exactly, who knows what is to come in the future.

All you want is something that is fair and uniformly enforced. I just added a little and point out that people who abuse the system, really make it hard for the good people it was intended to help

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:00 PM
AMEN! praise to the Coaster Gods ;)
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:22 PM
I don't mind disabled people not having to wait in the queue with everyone else. However, it should be like others have mentioned - a timed return ticket. Show up at the queue, get a time (whatever the queue is at that point) to come back. Then you can get on. If you want the front or back row - you need to wait longer.

Already they are getting a benefit not offered to anyone else. I don't see a problem with that. The problem arises when the park doesn't have a "fair" system in place and/or the guests abuse such a system in place.

I've seen people abuse the "parent swap" benefit at parks too. This is really an operational thing. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out how people are abusing the system and remedy the solution.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:01 PM

LdScotsman said:

Richie Reflux said:

I also have issues with groups that in the name of "staying together" think that they can just barrell through the line.


I did run into the usual groups staying together at Idlewild and Kennywood this weekend, but neither day was crowded so it wasn't a problem. The thing that astounded me was that while waiting for the Racer there was a group of at least 10 people in front of us. Some of their friends came into the line a couple of switchbacks behind and this group of 10 told everyone between them and their friends to go on ahead of them as they would wait for their friends. When was the last time anyone saw THAT happen?

Tom


I saw both of these at the same time at Hershey a few weeks ago. A group, I could tell they were together since it was during a cheerleading event at the Giant Center, was getting on Storm Runner, 5 or so got in line and then a group of their friends walk in behind about 10 or so who had got in line behind their friends. They excused themselves and walked up to their friends. Then some more people got in line followed by more of the same cheerleading team. Well a chaperone was with the front and back groups and the chaperone with the back group asked all of the 15 at the front to let the 20 or so people that were now between the two groups go by so they could all ride together.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:12 PM
A timed return ticket has benefits and problems...Take it from personal experiences. While I am not disabled myself I have gone to a few parks with a disabled friend. He definitely is disabled and can walk extremely short distances with some assistance. Trust me when I say he would prefer not to be disabled but he doesnt let that get in his way. Whenever we go to parks that do not have timed cards we do not abuse our priviledge to ride the rides. It is only fair and right that we do our thing and get out of everyone else's way. As far as someone with a "sprained" whatever, well maybe you really shouldnt be riding as it may cause more harm by doing so....but for someone who has a permanent disability I am all for them getting on whatever they can ride. With or without having to wait.

PRO's of timed cards - forces handicap people to wait like everyone else and does not give off perception of special treatment.

CON's of timed cards - handicap people tend to wear out a lot faster because they actually have to do a lot more physical work to actually move.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:33 PM
If they don't offer timed tickets, there should at least be some limit as to the number of times you can ride something - or the amount of time in between re-rides. Like mentioned above, if someone rides a coaster twice while you're waiting in the station, something is wrong.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:43 PM
A lot of times they give double rides because it's difficult for some people to get in and out of the car if they require assistance so it's easier to let them stay in the seat for a re-ride.

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