Thoughts on Cedar Fair's Future

Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:40 PM

Sure, WOF attendance ipped below 1 million (900K) for the second year in a row...but they turned a profit on that attendance. For that matter, VF took a bigger attendance nosedive than WOF last season (11% drop). KBF in the last quarter was disappointing, WOF was not.

The folks who talk about a MA hyper aren't the only ones dreaming--so was Roger Jourdan, the park's former owner. So it's not that crazy to mention it. You'll also note that among the capital expansions this year is improved catering facilities and capacity. More corporate picnics=more attendance and so on. I wouldn't think 600K-750K in the next couple years is out of reach. It would require a lot of sweat equity, but it can be done.

It's really not that wild to imagine that Detroiters who drive 2 1/2 hours to CP wouldn't drive 3.5 hours to MA. I just hope they don't stuff in a stumpy 180-foot Power Tower and market it as another CP or even a junior CP. They should stick to their existing strengths (homey atmosphere, good lumber, great waterpark) and accentuate the differences.

-'Playa

*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 4/10/2002. ***

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Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:04 PM
It really does seem like a filler at a place like Cedar Point though because of the park's already huge world class collection. In fact, to squeeze a Intiman impulse into the park kind of makes me furious. Any other park in the Cedar Fair chain could have gotten that and adored it for years and say they're happy, but here at Cedar Point it's "will there be a B&M flyer next year, a 4D coaster, a floorless?" Cedar Fair could easily let loose on Cedar Point for next year and do some major improvements at least one of their other parks. We already know that Cedar Point has a solid package. Can you really say that about any of the other Cedar Fair parks? So why not stop thinking about Cedar Point's coaster next year and think of the neglected Valleyfair, shadowed World of Fun, Braked Down Dorney Park, and the growing Knott's Berry Farm and Michigan Adventure. I be happy to be represented by Cedar Point, but I'd really be worried about Cedar Fair as my chain.
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Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:15 PM
Jeff, I was told by a friend from Philly that we're not supposed to tell how good Dorney is, or it might get too busy...(thought he kinda had a point;)). But here's where you'll flip...I actually DID like Talon at least as well as Raptor...but you all know how I feel about those compact Beemers...:).
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Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:49 PM
Roger Jourdan already had a permit for a 200 ft. high ride so it is the concensus that one WAS in the works. It just didn't materialize before the sale. Just wanted to toss that out there before someone shot back that everyone was "dreaming" of a hyper. If I am saying this wrong then someone please correct me, but Kinzel had said that that hyper "may" still be in the works, but not to count on it in the first few years. So then 3 years at the earliest but most likely 4 or more years after the acquisiton would we see the hyper. That is merely my guess, it is not a quoted figure from anyone in the front office up here.

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I've just seen the future...what was I saying?

*** This post was edited by MI Trooper1 on 4/10/2002. ***

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Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:57 PM

There is hardly a reason to worry with CF in your corner. They have kept consistent revenues with mid sized parks, and made them into the 1 million plus club every year. WofF and Valleyfair are locked into markets that have very low market growth. They would have became stagnent, or absorbed by Six Flags. The Hunt family wanted to sell, ans the builders of Valleyfair just didn't want the headaches of day to day operations.

Cedar Fair has placed trained managers into parks that needed expertise and buying power. Profits have increased, which is good, since most park owners I know enjoy making money and paying their bills on time. Not one park in the chain goes without anything they need.

*** This post was edited by Agent Johnson on 4/11/2002. ***

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Friday, April 12, 2002 9:13 AM
Actually Agent Johnson you're wrong on the Valleyfair bit. Walt continued to handle the day to day opperation of the park till just last year.

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Excalibur Crew for 2002!

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Friday, April 12, 2002 9:43 AM
Okay. This Waly character obviously didn't want the debt to go with it.
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Friday, April 12, 2002 1:13 PM

This picture was taken opening day at WOF. It shows a lot of blank space. They finally took out the plunge (water slide).

http://www.themeparksonline.org/pictures/2002opening4lrg.jpg

Cedar Fair should add a new coaster, this park really needs one. Many people have said they missed Zambezi Zinger, so maybe a coaster like that might be a good idea.

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3/22/02, The Roller Coaster Collection Site Finally Updated. New Poll, Trip Reports, Photos, RCT, Coaster Company Profiles, Links, and More
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme2/rollercoaster2/index.html

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Friday, April 12, 2002 1:22 PM

I love hypers but I just don't think that a hyper is what MA really needs. It seems to me that boomerang coaster may be a better fit for MA right now. A small but intense steel coaster may be just the ticket for MA. I'd also love to see a small B & M inverted, but I think that VF or WoF will see one first. Let's hope that MA has a good year attendance wise this year.

The one thing that FUN should avoid doing with MA is to turn it into a little CP. It must continue to have a seperate identity. There are too many people who live in both parks regions. If these people think that MA is only a CP junior then they will stay away from MA and continue to go to CP.

One more thing. The idea of getting a Royal Flush for MA sounds absolutely delicious!

*** This post was edited by PointMan on 4/12/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by PointMan on 4/12/2002. ***

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Friday, April 12, 2002 1:59 PM
Michigan Adventure is a very boring park. It's pretty much flat kiddie rides with one AWESOME coaster, ST....
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Friday, April 12, 2002 6:19 PM
Ignore him...he was an abused child

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I've just seen the future...what was I saying?

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Friday, April 12, 2002 6:24 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if someone is looking to have some more posts deleted?
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Friday, April 12, 2002 6:32 PM

just expressing my opinion

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Friday, April 12, 2002 6:48 PM

Jeff said:

Ugh... Cedar Point doesn't get preferential treatment. They build what they can recover in cost quickly, just like the other parks.

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hmm......;-)

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Mamba;The inspiration for SD2K. It doesnt get much better than that. Come to the Midwest;and ride the most underrated coaster in the U.S.


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Friday, April 12, 2002 7:08 PM
For what it's worth, a hyper wasn't just a thought with a permit at MIA -- there had been company contacts. (And it wasn't w/ B&M)

I don't see an SLC because no CF parks have them, and they aren't priced dissimilarly from B&M inverts, sadly. Two parks have boomerangs, though, I realized. (KBF and WOF)

I could see an Intamin midget hyper, but you've got to remember, you don't want anythign dwarfed by the mass of wood running along the parking lot.

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Friday, April 12, 2002 7:34 PM

CoastaPlaya said:

It's really not that wild to imagine that Detroiters who drive 2 1/2 hours to CP wouldn't drive 3.5 hours to MA. .



I'm from the Metro Detroit area, and one thing I like about being here (location-wise) is that two great parks are within a reasonable driving distance. MiA is a great family park, while Cedar Point is a "resort" park built for everybody.

I agree that MiA needs to add something to keep up popularity, but it all depends on what Cedar Fair wants of the park. Do they want a family park, or a Cedar Point cousin?


Wolf said:

I could see an Intamin midget hyper, but you've got to remember, you don't want anythign dwarfed by the mass of wood running along the parking lot.



IMO, it's going to be awhile until MiA builds something that will make Shivering Timbers look small.

My nickels worth of free advice.

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Tommy Penner - Variable X
"Yes. The Force is strong in that one." - Stifler, AP2.

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Friday, April 12, 2002 7:35 PM

310ftdrop said:

just expressing my opinion



You already have in a previous thread and you pretty much said the smae thing CP boy.

I started rideing coasters at CP before I was an enthusiast and that was when they first got the Mean Streak. I don't need a 310 foot coaster to make me like a park.

I am happy with Shivering Timbers and I await future improvements to Michigan's Adventure.

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Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:30 AM

If the cost is reasonable, and honestly I don't have the slightest idea what that would be, why not build something similar in size to Holland's Goliath? A "mini-hyper" of sorts that, by all accounts, would then give us two reasons to visit Michigan.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:06 AM
I've got to say that I think Wicked Twister was a mistake. I think an Xcelerator clone would have been the anwser. I just don't see how CP is going to market WT in the Cleveland area when Superman at SFWoA is a similar ride and a good one. I'm not saying WT will be a bad ride at all, but $9 million could have been better spent.
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Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:56 AM

Martling said:
I've got to say that I think Wicked Twister was a mistake. I think an Xcelerator clone would have been the anwser. I just don't see how CP is going to market WT in the Cleveland area when Superman at SFWoA is a similar ride and a good one. I'm not saying WT will be a bad ride at all, but $9 million could have been better spent.


If Cedar Point stop building coasters for 8 years, they'd still have more to market than anyone and would stay at the top. Instead of worrying about new coaster for Cedar Point(which they don't need after Wicked Twister, maybe some wood at the most), think about basing the money that you put into a coaster every so often into building extreme non-coaster experiences. Think about adding some of those thmed Huss gaint rides, the best dark ride on the planet, a three story bumper car complex(like on Doug ;) ), or a awsome water adventure. Think of this, they could build a sweet dark ride for the beach area in 2002 and better yet make it a CCI indoor coaster. You guys said it yourself that the park needs some wood, and they don't really need more giants. If they built what would be the best family coaster(CCI indoor like Superstition Mountain), they would have the one one thing thats seperates them from Magic Mountain aswell. Six Flags wi probably not look into creating a great family experience to go with all of Magic Mountains giant steelies, so if Cedar Point built it then they would easily have the edge for park that offers the beeset for family and coasater enthusiasts.

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