Think SFWoA is scrambling?

If SFWoA needs to scramble (and they do), it has nothing to do with Cedar Point's announcement.  Six Flags needs to fix some very basic problems in that park, from bathroom placement to path width to customer service.

The park DOES have great potential -- their coaster lineup is fantastic, for one thing.  I actually usually have a very good time at the park.  But unless and until they address some basic needs, I'll continue to enjoy parks like Kennywood, Hershey, Busch Gardens, and yes, Cedar Point, even more.

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--Greg
"Beat the rush, sign up for your post-Mean Streak MRI now..."
My page  My other page  And my coaster page

What everyone forgets is that last year there was a 41 percent jump from the year before up to 1.4 million guests at SFO(this had to do with 4 new coasters) before they changed over, they only averaged around 700,000 people a year as geuga lake on a good year and I do believe SWO never got more than 1.4 or there best year. You add the best stats before SF changed them over and you come out with 2.1 million guest between the both. Now this year even CP is reporting a 10-15 percent loss in attendance., so we figure that into the calculation of pre SFWoA of 2.1 million guests subtract 210 thousand which leaves around 1.8 million only 300 thousand off the amount that jeff says which is 1.5 million. As i figure it these #'s are just off from its pre SWoA days and this was a trerrible year for parks, especially ones that used to have killer whales and don't now. 300 thousand people off also could be from having dual parks foir the price of one, so it seems SF is doing just a little better than everyone wants to let on.
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Army Rangers lead the way

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quailroberts said:
No matter what they do, they will never be able to match PKI or CP.  Those two parks are the crown jewels of their respective chains and will always build the newest and best rides available.  Six Flags has to know that they can't overtake either PKI or CP without making a gigantic investment in SFWoA, and the presence of these larger parks leaves little room for medium sized parks like the current SFWoA.  Either Six Flags should turn up the kettle and go at it all out or get out of the coaster wars and rely on other types of attractions (like more whales) to draw in visitors.  That's a very good point Jeff, about combining parks.  But who knows, maybe they could become the first zoo that also has several rollercoasters in it.

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Why are you saying this SFWOA is very fun. I called it little CP when i lived there.  Also are you saying this cuaase its a SF park, if so SFMM Beats PKI, and CP any day.

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SFMM Season Pass 80$ drink 10$ ripping of six flags by coming back 100 times Priceless......

While some numbers look higher than others, you are going to see a significant drop in attendance as customers leave the park with a negative experience.

Low ticket prices and large rides may lure guests in the first time, but the overall experience will depend on whether or not that customer will give the park repeat business.

Marketing statistics show (and i can't find an official document right now) that if customers have a bad experience, gererally only 27-68% will return. If negative word gets out, then you are in big trouble... Especially in an area like Cleveland where attractions are very sensitve to local business.

I can show you that the park is hurting bad: look at the increase in food and parking prices compared to last year, and you can't blame a hike like that on inflation.

Are you reading this Six Flags?

*** This post was edited by john peck on 11/21/2001. ***

Just because a park raises prices of food and lot fees does not mean its hurting BAD as you said , does that mean every time that CP or Disney raises there prices in there parks they are doing bad, nearly every year there is an increase in prices no matter what. CP must be doing real bad they increased there prices last year by $3 oh oh CP is going down hill and  losing money( that was a joke). As for losing figures remember not everyone went back this year but a ton went the year before because where else could you ride 4 brand new coasters.
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Army Rangers lead the way

*** This post was edited by supermandl on 11/21/2001. ***

In an interview not long ago, Dick Kinzel stated that one of his biggest regrets was not buying Geauga Lake when he had the chance.  If the CEO of the biggest competitor thinks SFWOA would have been a valuable investment then I have to assume the potential is there.

Six Flags scrambled to get the Sea side open with some organization.  It wasn't done well and they hardly had time to market the new, combined experience.  If they get the right strategy, which requires the right people, then I think they can be successful.

Of course you all know, when Geauga Lake was struggling in the early 60's, a team who had worked at Cedar Point branched off and led GL through its rennisance in the late 60's through mid 80's by adding dozens of rides and establishing a clean and efficient park

I did not know that John that's very intresting.
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Army Rangers lead the way

I went to SFWoA just to ride X-Flight. I thought it was a good park. It was pretty and they have a decent selection of rides. B:KF was cool, but the fact that it's floorless IMO, isn't much different than riding Raging Bull, which I actually like better. (SFGAm is my home park)

However, the bathrooms had to be the worst I've ever encountered, and then there's the amusing, but less than helpful staff. The first day I was there, X-Flight was down totally. The next day it finally started running in the afternoon. Up until then, when asking the boy guarding the ride entrance, I was told the ride is "moody".....thanks, that narrows it down.

The next day I went to CP. Wonderful experience as usual.

Liz

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"The only real limit to height is what people are willing to get on." - Ron Toomer

*** This post was edited by live4MF on 11/21/2001. ***

The park already has one of the most kick butt coaster collections on the planet.(now if they could run them with more than one train, I digress) The park also boasts a really awesome kiddie area for the toddler and slightly older set. They don't need more coasters right now. They need to work on making the money back from consolidating the parks. One area I think they need to work on is flat rides. My wife went with me to the park this year and she is a non-coaster rider. She rode a total of two rides while we were there. A ferris wheel and a tower. That is it. Compare that to SFGAm where she usually rides about 10-12 rides. At CP she rode a ton of rides. She can handle some of the tamer roller coasters too like Whizzer at SFGAm or Iron Dragon at CP. There is nothing like that at SFWOA.

That said, my belief is that the park is currently marketing to two markets currently. People with small children and extreme enthusiasts. Children in the 8-14 yr age group and adults who don't like coasters are not really catered to in the ride department.

The other thing the park should invest in is to improve their customer service standards. Perhaps providing employees with some additional training may do the trick. Pay increases are logical as well but drive up the cost of operating the park. The department that would need the most training is ride operations because this was lacking severely at this park. This park had the rudest employees I have ever seen which is a shame because they have a wonderful park and a beautiful park.

By adding some inexpensive flats throughout the park and working on the customer service problem that exists, I think that SFWOA could become one of the gems in the SF chain coming close to SFGAm in their overall experience.

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Bob Hansen

"Excuse me while I kick the sky!"
kickthesky@hotmail.com

SFWoA has unlimited potential.  However the upper management seems to have their priorities mixed up.  It seems all they care about is "how much money will we make if we do this?"  I hope they get certain things straightened out.  I'd love to see a season of just minor improvements.  If they build on that, they'll be more successful.  I've always loved this park and would love to see it become more successful.

*** This post was edited by LTLWcbYbe on 11/21/2001. ***

If the park could train their employees better and treat the customers like guests, the park would be outstanding.

The problem with most, but not all, WoA employees (in the park AND behind the scenes) is that they just don't care, and treat the customers like a nuisence.

If the employees started to lighten up and have fun WITH the guests and treat them like humans, things would happen:

1. Happy employees=happy guests (ask Disney).

2. Employees would take pride in their park and it wouldn't be so dirty all the time.

3. Dispatch time would improve.

4. Return rate of guests would soar.

Unfortunately, the only thing that can not fix are the ever-rising prices throughout the park.

See, the thing about raising prices throughout the park is that many corporate companies believe it is completely neccassary to succeed in todays enconomy.

Let me give you an example on what this advertising professional (myself) has learned over the years about generated income within companies.

Six Flags believe, if you offer a low (or often discounted) gate price, that will lure people in. Well, thats correct. They figure that they can make up the discounts at the gate through high priced drinks, t-shirts and pay-per-ride attractions. WRONG, what it does is make your guest pay more and piss them off in the process.

Well what happens? After seeing many of these prices, guests buy less, you sell less and in turn make less. In order to make your monthly goal and pay for all overhead you once again need to raise your prices. By now, your season pass holders (whom the parks depend very much on to buy additional products) begin bringing lunches and leaving the park mid-day for a McD's sandwinch.

Recently, Cedar Point installed many of the Pepsi machines we have become familiar with in so many years. They charged $2.50 per 20oz bottle. There sales were small, hardly worth the effort. They dropped the price to $2.00 and sold a ton.

The moral of this story is, if you lower the price, more will buy and you will earn more and have more repeat sales. Period.

You can disagree with this all you want, but thats the truth of business, folks.

Do you have the figure on how much is being sold at SFWoA, who says they are not selling because of what you see there. As far as bring up prices on soda who say's the company they bought from did not raise the price to them. Also do you have figures on people not buying at park's that reduce prices but are pissing people off as you say by offering t-shirts and sodas and high priced pay per ride attractions at a higher rate.

But if you go in most of the amusement park's in that area its all the same basic price for everything. Compare PKI and CP's rates for PPR attractions and SFWoA prices on everything including soda you will see they are all with the same price range except you have paid less to get into SFWoA.

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Army Rangers lead the way

I love how everyone compares a park with over a hundred years of being in the amusement park biz with a park only a year old. I would like to see the figures for CP's 100 years of biz and we will see how they gradually increased to over 3.5 million guests a year I bet it was not in a few years of being open and I bet they had a few rough years out there. We need to stop comparing the 2 parks and take them for what they are 1's a super park and one hopefully in a 100 years will be a super park also. Remember rome was not built in a day and in our quick moving society we expect them to be a 100 year old park in 1 year.  Here is another thing that helps CP in there attendance figures, with there 100 year's open is they have generations of family's that have gone to CP through the years Some familys have 5 generations that have gone to CP. How many generations have gone to SFWoA besides on a family get together.
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Army Rangers lead the way

*** This post was edited by supermandl on 11/21/2001. ***