The lost Element - CoasterBuzz

This topic reeks of dorkisms. I can't believe there's even a debate on the subject. Overbank, cutback, hell, even loop... in this case we're all more or less talking about the same thing. Why bother trying to make it so academic? What purpose does it really serve other than for someone to say, "I'm right, you're not?"

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

The purpose is to have a discussion about roller coasters. Isn't that what these boards are for.

What's the purpose of saying "I know what CP is getting next year, but I'm not telling!"

Jeff said:
Overbank, cutback, hell, even loop... in this case we're all more or less talking about the same thing.

Yeah, just taken at different speeds. Like I said Bommerang, Cobra Roll, Batwing, Half loop; half corkscrew, etc... They are all the same and just differ slightly from ride to ride.

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Save Cheese on a stick!

Dave Althoff... always handy with a monkey to throw into the wrench. :)

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Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster : Kennywood Boulevard

Ok you guys, a cutback goes upsidedown, and an overbanked turn doesn't. They are not the same.

Okay, okay, so it isn't the best view of either element, but the shots are taken from pretty much matching angles...

Look at this image of Drachen Fire (referenced above)from Adam Sandy's Drachen Fire page.

Then look at this image of Millennium Force from Guide to the Point

You mean to tell me those aren't pretty much the same element?!

It would be more obvious in side views, or better yet a view from the other side of the track with a train going through. An even better comparison would be with one of the other two Millennium Force turns, but again, that last turn is the one with the best comparison photo.

Here's an even better shot of the fourth turn on Millennium Force. You mean to tell me that doesn't go upside down?!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

*** This post was edited by RideMan on 10/11/2001. ***

wow Jeff thanks for being extremely obnoxious. I would expect such immature comments from a 13 year old but not from a moderator. We were just having a interesting conversation about different elements, we were not being that technical about it and if you oppose people discussing coasters on your site than maybe you should change the name of the web site. I am pretty shocked at some of your responses lately, I apprecaited this site and think it is an incredible site but lately some of your comments have been deterioating the wholesome, "Family" atmoshpere of the site. thats just my opinion and I am not trying to pretend to more wholesome or superior to anyone. i am not trying to start a fight or anything but i just had to state my opinion.

Sounds pretty much like a righteous contest to me, sethman. I didn't do any name calling like you did, so you think about who is really being "wholesome" or "immature."

People always gotta hate on the JP and then say that they're not.

I stand by my point, more specifically that there's a difference between being technical and being wordy and academic about something that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter to anyone but marketeers.

Thanks for the GTTP plugs, Dave!

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
Watch the grass grow!

I really do not want to escalate this petty arguement, but "This topic reeks of Dorkisms" is implying that everyone and there opinions in this conversation is a dork, that's definitely name calling. I just do not think it is productive to to say " this topic sucks", which is what you were essentially implying.

Just chill, peeps. Be happy you now have a ride that does virtually the same thing as Drachen Fire minus the OTSRs.

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Joshua Wilcox
"We have awakened a sleeping giant and have instilled in him a terrible resolve"
- Japanese Admiral Yamamoto after sneak attack on Pearl Harbor

Guys they who cares, they are(were) both fun to ride and experince.
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Montu, God Of Coasters

Raging Bull, Don't Fight It, Ride It

I'd like to point out that Vekoma also made an element similar to the Cutback and Intamin overbanked turn. The "Tongue". Its on one coaster only, Space Mountain at DLP. You don't go upside down... but you are on your side for a long while! Also, when seen in full light, its looks too tight to be believed.

sethman said:
. the over banked turns do not give the same sensation as a cutback, there is no hang time on the over banked turns.

Because you didn't take the cutback at 93 MPH. i'm sure if you took the cutback at 93, there woudl be no hangtime. then again, I'm pretty sure that ANY Arrow coaster taken at 93 MPH might be quite painful.

-Josh

If you read one of my later posts, I do mention the speed on MF's over banked and that they instead produce strong lateral g's. Yeah, i would hate to ride a arrow looper going 93 MPH, I definitely would lose my spine and suffer some severe brain damage.

I've seen this "tongue" you speak of. That Space Mountain looks incredible, they even trimmed speed off the top of the launch so you get hang dropping into the ride. Inside: Disneyland Paris was an incredible show. The best I've seen, IMO, and I'm no fan of Disney. Three incredible looking, unique coasters.

BTW, anytime I've ever read or heard complaints about pain in the back and DF, it usually has something to do with that cutback. Doesn't look painful, but who knows.

sethman said:
"...I do mention the speed on MF's over banked and that they instead produce strong lateral g's."

Millennium Force does not pull lateral G's anywhere. The forces of the ride are almost always pulling you directly into your seat, never to the side (with the exception of the 12 total seconds of airtime throughout the ride). That's part of the reason it's so often perceived as being smooth and gentle by non-enthusiasts despite its speed.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I loved how Rideman put the dispute of the cutback and the overbank into perspective with those pics. If people still don't think they are the same, they must be just blind or ignorant. :)

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what about Speed: The Ride's banked turn? thats worth a look at..You do go past a horizontal 90 degree angle.. Look at the second train in this picture: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery593.htm?Picture=5
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"Ahh Beer. My one weakness. My Achilles heel, if you will" - Homer Simpson
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I honestly don't care either way, but the elements look different enough to me to warrant separate names. The cutback cleary looks inverted to me, but I never felt inverted on MF, nor do those banked turns look like inversions to me. I suppose CPgenius wants to call me blind or ignorant, now.

Here is the cutback with a train in it. Here's one looking down on it, and here is one from the other way. I'd say MF is about the same...